Tensioner bearing noise coming and going ? | FerrariChat
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Tensioner bearing noise coming and going ?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by peajay, Aug 21, 2005.

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  1. peajay

    peajay Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2002
    454
    near Paris, France
    Full Name:
    Paul
    #1 peajay, Aug 21, 2005
    I took my 328 out for a few quick demonstration rides for friends today and on the second run after about 4 -5 miles total running (got up to about 6 000rpm briefly) a metalic squealing noise started very suddenly. I stopped and took a look and it was clearly coming from the right hand side, and was definitely increasing with engines revs. I limped home slowly in 5th gear with the noise all the way home. Parked the car and removed the rear wheel etc. and started up, after a very brief squealing the noise disappeared. I have run the car a couple of times for quite a few minutes up to 5000 rpm, but the noise will not come back. I am pretty sure it is not belt squeal, it is too metalic, I suspect a bearing and my thoughts are a tensioner bearing. Has anyone had a tensioner bearing make a noise and then go quiet ? I put a screwdriver on the rear tensioner bolt to listen and it sounds a little loud/notchy, but it is not possible to get on to the forward bolt for comparison. Anyone seen this before ?
     
  2. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
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    #2 Meister, Aug 21, 2005
    I had a pretty harsh squealing like the one you descirbe and for the life of me I thought it was a tensioner bearing or belt. It turned out to be a alt/water pump belt. It (the belt) will tend to squeal when it's cold if it's not tensioned correctly, that's why it comes and goes.

    It's a lot simpler fix than a belt or tensioner, check it out.

    Good luck.
     
  3. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,612
    The Brickyard
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    The Bad Guy
    #3 ernie, Aug 21, 2005
    Okay first make sure it isn't one of the accessory belt. If the accessory belts aren't causing the squeal then DO NOT START THE ENGINE, or SHUT IT OFF!

    AGAIN, DO NOT START THE ENGINE!!!!

    If it is your tentioner bearing you need to have it changed ASAP. If it locks up on you, one or both of the belts will burn up, break, then your valves and piston will beat the crap out of each other.

    It really sounds like you have a bearing about to freeze up. So unless you want to pay to have the engine rebuilt I suggest you don't start the engine and get the bearings and timing belts changed.
     
  4. peajay

    peajay Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2002
    454
    near Paris, France
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    Paul
    #4 peajay, Aug 22, 2005
    I don't think it is a belt squeal, the noise is different and my car was quiet when cold but the noise came when it was warmed up, so I do suspect a bearing. I am probably going to bite the bullet and put on two new tensioner bearings, I have had the car two years and changed the belts just after I got it, but the bearings were good so I left well alone, looks like now is the time to get new ones, it is quite a bit of work when I am not sure what the problem is, but it is good insurance and peace of mind I suppose, plus I get to check the belts.
     
  5. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    #5 Meister, Aug 22, 2005
    If you've done the belts/tensioners before yourself then it wont cost too much to change them again to eliminate that as a possibility (just your time).

    I've been told to never retension old belts so if you're go to put in new bearings make sure you change the belts as well.

    good luck.
     
  6. spang308

    spang308 Formula Junior

    Jul 17, 2004
    893
    York, PA
    #6 spang308, Aug 22, 2005
    Good advise.
    Are you sure it's not the water pump or possibly the A/C belt tensioner? I would remove the accessory belts and see if the noise goes away.

    Just a thought....

    John
     
  7. peajay

    peajay Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2002
    454
    near Paris, France
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    Paul
    #7 peajay, Aug 22, 2005
    No I'm not sure it is not the alternator or water pump, rotating them they sound OK. My problem is there is no longer any noise, so taking belts off won't help, I just need the noise to come back long enough to allow me to quickly loacate it.
    I will plan on new belts if I change the tensioner bearings, anyone have the Gates part number ? I have the Dayco one from last time I bought belts, but I am hearing Gates are better.
     
  8. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    May 5, 2001
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    #8 Verell, Aug 23, 2005
    If you find a Gates P/N, please post it. I've been looking for it for a couple of years. If it's in the archives I couldn't turn it up in 3 or 4 different searches.
     
  9. treue

    treue Formula Junior

    Jan 22, 2004
    290
    Oklahoma
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    Tom Treue
    #9 treue, Aug 24, 2005
    Peajay,

    Could it be one of the bearings that supports one of the cam belt drive pulley shafts (on either side of the crankshaft pulley)? I had a 308 with that problem. It made a metallic singing noise that could be heard off of building fronts while driving through town. The shaft seal also went bad and caused a moderate oil leak. If that's the problem, it won't last much longer.

    Tom
     
  10. peajay

    peajay Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2002
    454
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    Paul
    #10 peajay, Aug 25, 2005
    Tom

    That is a possibility I suppose, I havent seen any signs of an oil leak yet. I have ordered the parts to do a tensioner bearing and a belt change, so when I have it apart I will look at those bearings also. I would normally expect those bearings to be much less likely to fail since they have active lubrication, whereas the tensioner bearings just have the sealed lubrictaion from original manufacture.
     
  11. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    #11 Steve King, Aug 25, 2005
    My 2 cents is to be ready for a water pump. They show this type of symptom before they freeze up. If this isn't the problem I would check the AC belt. If the belt is a slight bit loose when cold it may not squeel but as it heats up it expands so it either has more grip (heated belt is sticky) or it will squeel at times. Also I find it interesting that when you did the belt replacement you did not replace the tensioner bearings. That should be a given so even if you have a AC or Alt belt problem you should go in and do a belt change again and replace the tensioners. My 2C Enjoy the ride
     
  12. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #12 jwise, Aug 25, 2005
    Sounds like you are going about this the right way. If it was my car, I would change all belts, tensioner bearings, rebuild the water pump ($80 kit from T. Rutlands) if you have no record of it being done recently, and probably replace the outer cam drive bearings and oil seals. Your car is almost 20 years old, and if they have never been replaced, you might as well. The outer bearings for the cam drives are sealed bearings, the inners are in oil. The seal is between them.
    They can be replaced fairly easily once you are already there with the timing belts off. Just make sure the crankshaft does not move while you are taking off the cam drive sprockets (you need a special socket for those). Also- if you do the outer drive bearings, replace the oil seals behind them, and the nuts that hold the sprockets.

    The inner drive bearings are another story all together. They are pressed into the block and are constantly in crankcase oil. IN MY OPINION, they would need replacing if the outers failed catastophically while running so as the belt drive was jumping around and rattling around visibly to the eye.
    Sounds like your outers are fine right now, and may or may not be just making a little noise. I would not even think about replacing the inners in your case. It's a much bigger job that can really get out of hand if things go wrong- I know. Again- this is just my opinion.

    Check out mine and Verell's journey to cam drive bearings:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28437&highlight=cam+drive+bearings+308
     
  13. peajay

    peajay Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2002
    454
    near Paris, France
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    Paul
    #13 peajay, Aug 25, 2005
    All the belts are new (less than 1000 miles) and | have wondered about the water pump, but I checked it again last night and no noise or rough feeling at all from the pump or idler bearing. When I have the new tensioner bearings installed (and new cam belts) I will feel more comfortable about running the engine and driving if necessary to see if there are any other problems, hopefully when I have the tensioner bearing in my hands the bad bearing will be evident. The car has about 40 000 miles.
     

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