TERS/KERS Future Ferrari's

is there any excess bleed air to power a small APU for a continous power source, could it produce enough to make it a worth while as a supplement without affecting performance

 

I understand the push for all of these types of modern advances but I personally cringe at the thought.

Maybe I'm outdated already at 41 but I prefer as few gimmicks/gadgets as possible, even at the expense of performance. Any exotic that would kill the engine at red lights, etc. would be a total deal breaker for me. I would have to have the ability to shut off that function otherwise I would view it as another government intrusion into my life. TES/KERS wouldn't be a deal breaker for a street car but I would just give it a "meh" and could live without it either way. I do appreciate the potential gains it offers in the razor close arena of racing.

But what do I know, I still miss having a clutch and gated shifter.

 

Will we see a time where Ferrari only produces track only cars?

 

My 1 year old niece knows how to use an iPad. Manual transmissions and roll-up window cranks will be as foreign to her as a hand-cranked engine was to me.

The future is here already.

 

True, but that doesn't mean I have to like it!

 

I can understand both sides when you put it this way.

 

Let's say this plays out a decade or two, and we have the first all-electric Ferrari. It has gobs of torque, incredible aero, electronic idiot-proof auto-everything handling/suspension gizmos, looks really good, and is by far the fastest road going Ferrari ever. But.... it is totally silent apart from a mild electrical whirring noise. Would you want it?

Or would you prefer the sound, feel, and much lower performance of say, a 355 screaming through a Capristo stage 3 exhaust while you slowly (relatively) clank the gated shifter around and use this strange device called a clutch pedal?

I know which way I'd vote.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPS0XgBGsV4&feature=related[/ame]

 

I would vote with you. In fact I was telling a friend the other day that a 355 w/stage3 capristo was my favorite sounding ferrari of all time and I've heard a bunch.

Why do you and I prefer that sound? In my case... That particular sound is the closest sounding street exhaust to a modern formula 1 car, or I should say the F1 cars from the past 20 or so years, when revved to full tilt boogie. I'm in my early 30s. I like older vintage exhaust sounds too. But the one that makes my spine really tingle is the 355 with that particular exhaust package. Because it evokes the moment in time (late 90s) when I first had the thrills of watching F1 on TV, and playing F1 video games. That sound echoes back in my brain and stimulates memories, pure, happy, memories, associated with the technological and performance pinnacle of that moment in time, the late 90's.

Maybe kids born today will grow up with video games and televised races that mic up the wind noise, and tire noise, and gearbox whirring and maybe that will be the sweet melody that they associate with pure joy and happy memories.

 

Jim, does KERS make any particular noise, by itself, that would be audible in the absence of an engine exhaust?

 

The only negative of all this techno is the cost, 10 years down the line, as a used car to a future buyer buyer. Carbon brakes, KERS, etc. etc., when this stuff starts going wrong. It's not like getting into a 308/328, 355 even up to 360, that while more expensive than a regular car to repair, it's still somewhat manageable.

 

i've not driven a KERS equipped car, so my question

obviously KERS benefits a high horsepower racing car, but in the discussion of road going cars, is it perhaps even better for lower power, smaller displacement cars?

from what you've felt in driving with KERS, would it be as good on a lower power, smaller car??

presumably the KERS will recharge at the same rate despite the engine size,and at the same draw

i've always favored lighter weight cars, and with ever more imposing eco-friendly laws against road cars, they seem a good fit .....but how would that affect be on such a car, negative in upset balance or 'power on/off', or positive?

thanks

 

My question is: how safe is it to provide the many sub-par drivers who purchase these cars with a "boost" button?

I am a fan of the technology, though I am not too familiar with how it works exactly, so perhaps the boost isn't the only or even principal benefit, however I do think there should be some concern about making these incredibly fast cars even faster. Today, most people with access to KERS on incredibly fast cars have the letters FIA printed on their driver's license... There's a reason for that, I guess.

 

you mean it comes on so sudden as to upset the car, or loose from a less experienced/capable driver?

i agree, and that's also part of my question too i think...how sudden or hard does the KERS hit?

being an electrical function, surely then an attenuation could be incorporated

 

A benefit for KERS I see for a road or racing car would be camshaft choices and timing options. This is information that is probably well-known by those knee-deep in KERS tech already, but I see KERS as being highly beneficial below 4k rpm which I believe is where engine designers for road cars in particular must be cautious with their camshaft timing choices and ramp/lobe designs. This was why variable technology came about, but with KERS, I could see it essentially bridging the gap between 'not driveable race-only setup engine' to something where the KERS makes the machine driveable through the low rpm where race engines hate being, and then transitioning to engine power once the engine reaches a certain rpm. In that respect, for road cars we could call KERS a band-aid for an engine that would otherwise be undriveable. This could possibly open the door for even higher revving engines which make power in rpm bands we previously believed to be unsuitable for any road engine.

 

What a beautiful thought!!

 

It sort of makes sense though doesn't it? This could mean Ferrari's next road engines could be smaller, but be 12k rpm screamers. The car would technically not run much under it own engine power under 3-4k rpm where it would basically be in 'idle' mode and allowing the KERS to do most of the work in simple daily driving. It's a heck of a concept for a hybrid, and I know the green police didn't have this in mind, but rules were made to be interpreted and have gray areas, and that's what F1 is all about right?

I have a feeling we are seeing the end of the second golden era of Ferrari's though in that these are the final iterations of 100% natural engine-only powered cars. From now on, there will of course be engines, but there will be something else as well. Just like in '80 when everyone whined about going to a choked fuel injection system, in the end it only make the breed better and furthered the tech. KERS is a different ballgame and may prove to be a massive failure but we will have to see. A second powertrain type device in a car certainly opens up developemental ideas doesn't it. So in that respect, we are in a pioneer stage which is always when we see creativity at its finest.

 

I agree.

Watch the Porsche 918 (770 bhp hybrid) and trickle-down technology. I think we're getting to the point where a "100% natural engine-only" car is going to become uncompetitive. Not just for those us who hate pollution, but from a performance and economy perspective.

 

spot on correct there sir. Just as in F1, the technology will only be developed further from here. And it will be a great show to watch unfold as every manufacturer has a slightly different interpretation on what will work best