TEST DRIVE VID. Finally. 308gtb with P6 cams and 10.5:1 cpr | FerrariChat
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TEST DRIVE VID. Finally. 308gtb with P6 cams and 10.5:1 cpr

Discussion in '308/328' started by Ferraripilot, Oct 2, 2010.

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  1. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #1 Ferraripilot, Oct 2, 2010
    GrayTA came up today to go for a ride, and was therefore volunteered to hold the camera and add commentary and childish snickers about how cool this is now (who can resist!).

    Anyway, the car with these cams is very driveable, and to prove it, Patrick drove it himself to objectively compare against his QV. I am sure he will chime in after he has had a chance to reflect on today's face-melting session. Making this thing driveable was essentially a tuning twilight zone, so in the interest of keeping whatever sanity a person might have remaining, I suggest not doing this unless you really really really want to.

    Very pleased. Dyno next

    enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogjKRhQua_w
     
  2. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    #2 Sledge4.2, Oct 2, 2010
    That sounds awesome, all the hard work paid off. Great job man.
     
  3. 308 GTB

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    #3 308 GTB, Oct 2, 2010
    Very nice, John!!
     
  4. Ferraripilot

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    #4 Ferraripilot, Oct 2, 2010
    Thanks fellers.

    For you carb fanatics, my current jetting is as follows: 55 idles. F24 tubes. 200 air correctors and 135 mains. Still a shade lean! Running 36 degrees total ignition timing with 10 degrees at idle. Lots of timing coming in by 2500 rpm, say about 28 degrees.
     
  5. GrayTA

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    #5 GrayTA, Oct 2, 2010
    Finally getting on here to give my commentary.

    I have long heard that the P6 cams were unstreetable as well. After driving it I have come to really understand a LOT more about this buildup. The power comes on really strong the higher you push it. I was really surprised at the torque difference between this engine and my QV. I know, the carbs vs. FI will make a difference, but this thing pretty well screams!! The throttle response was pretty amazing - I thought my QV was pretty responsive, but John has me beat there too.

    What I felt was that below 3k the engine had a lot of overlap due to the cams, so it spat and sputtered a little bit - but nothing that was unmanageable at all - once I had a few minutes behind the wheel. From 3k it seemed to even out a bit, then above 4.5k or so that thing pulled like a freaking freight train!!! There was seemingly no end to the powercurve - at least not that I was willing to reach in someone else's car.


    I had a blast!!! Thank you for the opportunity to drive it!!!



    PDG
     
  6. viper_driver

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    #6 viper_driver, Oct 2, 2010
    sure sounds good.
     
  7. Sledge4.2

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    #7 Sledge4.2, Oct 2, 2010
    remind me what changes you made to jetting
     
  8. Papa G

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    #8 Papa G, Oct 3, 2010
    Sounds great, thanks!
     
  9. duck.co.za

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    #9 duck.co.za, Oct 3, 2010
    Finally we have some real life proof !!! Where is " Paul " ( artvonne ) he must be enjoying this ???
    Well done John you certainly stuck at it .
     
  10. ramosel

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    #10 ramosel, Oct 3, 2010
    WOO-HOOO!!!

    Hard to get a visceral feeling from a video but it sure sounds good.

    Rick
     
  11. Ferraripilot

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    #11 Ferraripilot, Oct 3, 2010
    I have been all over the map with plugs and jetting. From BP7ES- BP9ES back to BP7ES, and am now using a surprisingly hot BP6ES. The F24 tubes throw so much fuel into the chamber that they cool the plugs partially causing much of the stuttering which baffled me forever as I was trying to fix the stuttering issue with jetting. Turns out it needed to be a combo of both while using a specific timing curve. What jets where when and with what plugs, I can't recall now as I tried so many combinations.

    Before this rebuild, I had F36 tubes with 140 mains, 190 ac and 55 idles. The F24s change everything so basically throw whatever you think you know out of the window when they go in.
     
  12. hinton308

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    #12 hinton308, Oct 3, 2010
    Great video John!!
    Don
     
  13. MS250

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    #13 MS250, Oct 3, 2010
    just curious of the under 3,000 rpm spudder - do you need to drive it at over 3,500 constantly then ? great video - i see the car on the video was always 4,500 and over and sounded great in the cabin.
     
  14. Pizzaman Chris

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    #14 Pizzaman Chris, Oct 3, 2010
    Oh man, that sounds sooo sweet.

    You did a great job on her John.
     
  15. GrayTA

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    #15 GrayTA, Oct 3, 2010

    I dont think thats really completely the case. My mention of it probably overstates it a bit. Its just a really noticeable difference once it hits 2750-3000 in the smoothness. You dont have to keep it up that high at all. I was surprised at how tractable it was given all the rumors and stories of this type combination. Yes, it definitely likes the higher RPMs, but thats it.



    PDG
     
  16. Sledge4.2

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    #16 Sledge4.2, Oct 3, 2010
    not to hijack your thread but i have
    F36, 200ac, 60 idles and 125 mains

    i was able to tune out (painfully) almost all the midrange stumble with the 55's but then for the fun of it put 60's in and the stumble was gone.

    The things seems to run right, but i would like to check the air fuel ratio to see if I am rich or lean, bc I am not certain. I dont have near the level of skill you do, so what is the best way? take it to a dyno? read the plugs (i can do that pretty well). Appreciate the insight.
     
  17. Ferraripilot

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    #17 Ferraripilot, Oct 3, 2010
    not at all. glad to talk about this stuff! I am certainly no expert, but I have made good on understanding what is what with these carbs and engines.

    With your cams, I suggest at least a 135 or 140 main with your 200 ac. Remove the 60 idles and replace with the 55s as if you go to either of those main jets than they will meter plenty of fuel for the idle jet channel for 55s to work well. The main is where everything comes in through, so more through the main often means less idle jet is required. Understand these mains will not allow you to pass emission, so when you need to do that obviously swap back to your 125s, get it hot and do the test.

    The plugs should have a thin base soot ring deep inside the ceramic insulator at the base. This is where wide open throttle testing and max power is read. Open up the engine in 3rd gear with a fresh set of plugs (old plugs are difficult to read), pull a plug after you shut down which should be immediately after the WOT run and then read what you have at the base of the insulator. 125s are going to be far too lean and I promise you will feel a difference with 135s or 140s. You probably have 15bhp hiding in there right now.

    If you want a set of early cams, I have mine sitting around. Shoot me a PM if you want to get them in to get some more scoot! I understand the obsession lol.

    -john
     
  18. Ferraripilot

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    #18 Ferraripilot, Oct 3, 2010

    The big difference is you cannot mash the gas pedal below 3k rpm or you will get stuttering, but you don't have to really nurse it either. I drive it below 3k often and usually stick below it as best I can until the engine oil is warm. There is no really getting on it in that rev range, but then again the stock cams barely allow you to get on it at that rpm too.
     
  19. MS250

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    #19 MS250, Oct 3, 2010
    ^

    thanks for the clarification guys - under hard load the rev up it did sound more aggressive, and i heard in the video that there was more torque felt, which the 308 is missing. if you have more vids, would love to see them , thanks for sharing your findings on this project.

    maybe a silly question (s) what grade and type of motor oil are you using now ? And how did the tranny feel with the extra torque on tap?

    thks !
     
  20. Sledge4.2

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    #20 Sledge4.2, Oct 3, 2010
    so would you guess I am running lean at WOT with my 125's? Its definately running a little rich at little, but it sits there an purrs nicely...
     
  21. Ferraripilot

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    #21 Ferraripilot, Oct 3, 2010
    Tranny feels fine. Shifts very well. The extra torque is about 1k higher than in a stock car but maintains what a stock motor makes below that.

    As for oil, I am running 15w/50 mobil 1. During break in I used 10w-40 regular oil and changed it twice after a period of say 400 miles break in. Rings are set really well.
     
  22. Ferraripilot

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    #22 Ferraripilot, Oct 3, 2010

    yeah 125s are way too lean for modern fuel
     
  23. Sledge4.2

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    #23 Sledge4.2, Oct 3, 2010
    <calling pierce manifolds in the morning>
     
  24. AJS328

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    #24 AJS328, Oct 4, 2010
    Nice!
     
  25. Sledge4.2

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    #25 Sledge4.2, Oct 27, 2010
    cloudy few days in northern cal, so I pulled the 125 mains and 60 idles and put in 135 mains and 55 idles. Backed out the mix screws a little and took her for a drive. The 135's definately feel wetter above 3k, so that was a very good call. Seems like it wants just a little more fuel below 3k.....its almost there. Going to drive it around all weekend and see, didnt have a chance to reall wring it out before the sunset, but overall moving to 135's was a great call.
     
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