Hi guys.. Anyone have run into this isseu and what was the problem?? When cold tha car takes forever to start (dry's the battery almost). every so many revs while starting it fires 1 cyl. and goes on starting. than when your almost to give up it starts without a problem. Idles fine at 1100rpm. Engine runs fine from there.. the only thing I noticed is a bit of lack of power. (could be me though... but that's how it feels) anyone knows what this is? BTW plugs etc have been done about 6000Mls ago. Never have had this issue before untill I this summer/spring. Any help/remarks greatly appriciated
I would second a fuse panel problem. TR fusebox connectors are a crappy design. It's a U shaped terminal which fits over a spade. Over time the U opens up and makes poor or no contact. That starts overheating and arching, often burning the plastic connectors on the high current devices. Best guess since it's a starting problem would be one of the two fuel pump connections. You can check the connectors and bend the Us closed a little. Stabilant 22 works well. If it gets really bad (as mine did, intermittently dropping 6 cylinders while driving) you can either replace the connectors with new OEM or with standard spade lugs which fit much more tightly than the OEM (but you lose some convenience of the quick disconnect).
sure sounds like your fuel pump relays are bad. open the fuse panel and pull them out (they'er labeled on the diagram on the inside of the panel) Go to the auto parts store and have them cross reference a replacement. I'd also replace all the fuses and spray contact cleaner into the panel (let dry overnight) That worked wonders for me.
Update: Well sitting in the driveway the now the cars refuses to start altogether now. Checked the relays. checked the fuses. Fuses seemed to be fine and in working order. Pulled out a LB relay.. still all fine. Pulled out another relay and stuck it into the first one.. fuse blew right away. took out fuse and placed relay anyway.. installed new fuse.. blew again.. Will check BOTH fuel pumps in the morning. Just don't get the reason for blowing a fuse doesn't make sense unless both feull pumps went to ferrari heaven and are stuck. Any ideas? NB. the fuse box looks like brand new from the inside. The relay's show their age (all are 1987 originals). Fuses have been replace last winter during inspection. all contacts on fuses are in perfect woring order (spraying... yes sometimes really helps.. we use WD40... wonder stuff)
If you'd like to functionally test the fuel pumps, remove the fuel pump relays R & T and connect/touch a jumper wire from the 30 terminal to the (bottom) 87 terminal in the relay socket as shown in the attached figure (engine "off", and key "off") -- you should hear the corresponding fuel pump run. Note: the figure shows a ..113 relay socket (with the 87 terminal also in the center position), but you jump a ...101 socket (87a in the center position) from 30 to 87 the same way. I forget which is which, but either the 30 terminal or the 87 terminal of each relay socket should always be at +12V relative to ground -- if it is, the fuses and the upstream wire & connections are OK. If both fuel pumps run OK, and you made two jumpers, you could even try starting the engine with the fuel pumps running in that "manual" fashion. If one or both don't run OK, then you'd be looking downstream at the white connector area, the fuel pump itself, etc. Make sure when you were swapping relays around that you use the same type. I think we figured out earlier that virtually all TRs (except very early standard version examples) use the ...101 relay (87 and 87a terminal) for the fuel pumps even though the TR OMs say otherwise. If you plug a ...113 relay (two 87 terminals) into the fuel pump positions you'll blow the fuse. Have you confirmed that each coil is firing well during the protracted starter motor cranking? (Just wondering if you've really confirmed if it's a spark or fuel issue?) Let us know which test you fail Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi guys, Well its a fuell issue alright. When the engine runs... it runs fine The relays... well need to check that a little further. Will remove the bottom plates and give both pumps some direct power to see if they work... If they do its an electrical gremlin... if not.. I know where to look. Anyway... I was lucky this happend in the drive way....(mine) Robje1355 BTW keep the suggestions coming.. will check all.
One more thing to check. When my car was in for a 15k service a couple of years ago the mechanic found a place where one of the wiring harnesses in the rear was rubbing, I think against the frame. That harness included the fuel pump wiring and caused an intermittent fuse-blowing episode. He taped up the wire and tie-wrapped the harness out of the way and problem has never recurred.
Charged the battery over night (just to be sure and changed the relays). Ingnition engine turned only twice and strated right away. Switched it off and changed the relays for the old ones.. engine starts and runs fine.. Possible problems: Fuel filters dirty (lack of responce in higher RPM's missing power etc) elec. coil... need to check Electronic Ignition need to check (found some moisture in the plugs) Fuel pumps need to be checked for enough supply and working condition (elec part) That would be it for the moment... any other possible things please keep them coming as I do check them.. Will let you know the outcomne one way or the other As far as probs in the wiring (negative here.. all checked out to be fine after measuring it thru). @91 TR.. reason for blowing fuses found... me being stupid.. (can't change a relay 101 for a 113)..
I went through many of the same things in my TR. But Steve 91TR help me and I owe him big-time for it. About blowing those fuses, I too put the wrong relay in with the same results. After all...my owner's book and shop manual show a "113" relay for the fuel pumps when it is in fact "101". I wrote an email to Ferrari about it, just to inform them of this issue and my dissapointment. Of course I didn't get a response. Oh well. Good Luck with your investigation and keep us posted.
Dear Ferraristi, Boy, This sounds like a problem I had. The crank crank crank...no start is also indicitive of the tacometric relay system. Check the the relay behind the fuse box in trunk. In my case, it was a factory fault in a wire not crimped inside the plug of the tacometric sensor in the harness that plugs under the expansion tank. My problem was actually on the "car" side under the metal plate. Check your wiring from the sensor. It's one of the white wires that come off the clutch housing. That sensor will let the car crank till the cows come home but not start. My hat's also off to Steve (91TR) for all his help in finding and tracing this problem. Shamile Shams Kassam II (91 Testarossa ) Freeze...Miami Vice!
Final Post on this issue Well after much testing checking and the more of the likes "I" have found the problem. The thing is that it was THAT simple I would never even thought of it myselfs. My thanks go out to Cor, Chief Mechanic at Ferrari Kroymans Hilversum for the suggestions. So the issue was dual. First of I replaced the fuel filters... I don't knnow how old they were but they are brand new now. The second was the good part so if you ever have an issue like I had please check it. between the 2 Bosch KE tronic there's a little pipe on top of that pipe you'll find 2 electrical connectors. 1 takes care of the cold start (choke kind of thing) the other one is plugged into the motor managment system. If 1 of the 2 have either a defective sensor, bad connector, too high resistance, due to corrosion, etc.... well you'll end up what I have had.. Additionally please check the 2 connectors on the bellhousing. Take out the 2 sensors and clean them. make sure to spray some WD40 on the connectors when playsing them back, anyway. The repairs were done in about 5 minutes.... take the connectors off use WD40 and your all connectors. The car starts at firts turn. Cold start is great. Power is back up... Me VERY VERY happy camper now!!
I think the 2 sensors you are referring to are the Thermo-time switch and the Temp. sensor. These are located on top of the "gooseneck" at the front-top of the motor.
