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Testarossa Price Trends

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Mr.Chairman, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. V4NG0

    V4NG0 Karting
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    Dec 14, 2018
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    Vinny
    The dealers didn’t all wake up simultaneously in January 2014 and randomly decide to start trading/hoarding these cars at ever increasing multiples. The underlying demand and price appreciation was already snowballing for years prior.

    Where is the non-anecdotal, numerical proof? Look at the Hagerty Market Index, where collector car prices fell sharply from April 2008 until bottoming over a year later in August 2009. Buyers then stabilized the market for about 6 months when it stopped falling and went sideways, after which time in 2010 it began trending progressively upward, peaking in September 2015.

    All you and I are doing is describing different segments of the market curve.
     
  2. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
    I know a lot of wholesalers/dealers/speculators that started stockpiling 911's, 308/328's and Testarossa's in 2013-2015. One guy I know had over one hundred 911 turbos in his warehouse at the peak, there are a lot of people out there like him who made a lot of money doing this.

    Just think $3-4Million of 911 turbos 4 years later was $10ish million

    I own 2 software companies now but was a dealer for 25+ years before and still keep in touch with these guys and my finger on the markets pretty well.
     
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  3. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Rookie
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    #4254 Bradwilliams, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    Doesn't match my experience at all and I remember it like it was yesterday. I remember shopping for my Testarossa which began fall of 2012 and ended may of 2013. The market was DEAD. D-E-A-D. TR's were anywhere from 40-55 grand for nice driver quality cars with a few miles while the garage queens were 60-70. 512trs? Well, I passed on at least three that had 80 grand asking prices on them. Meaning I could have had my pick of either for 75. But two were garage ornaments and weren't what I wanted, and the third was the ex Michael jordan car that was a basket case and the owner wanted too much for it given its terrible condition. By the time I finally bought mine that may, there were still tons of them languishing on the market for months with the same asking prices as the fall of 2012. Nothing had changed at all and when I was loading mine on the transport, NOBODY wanted them. Testarossas were still looked at as the crappy 80s miami vice car, oh and another thing I explicitly remember? NONE of them were for sale at dealers or brokers. They wanted nothing to do with the vintage stuff, especially this car. Out of the 30 or 50 that were for sale at the time only 1 or 2 were at dealers. That I do remember. Fast forward 6-12 months, ALL OF THE CARS are at dealers and brokers, and instead of 40 or so being for sale? Only 9 or ten. Go re read the threads on here and you will see it. The TR was all of a sudden "rare and elusive" and you couldn't find a private seller if you tried. It was pretty obvious what was going on from the get go. If somebody has the stones to speculate to that degree, and doesn't realize that it is a zero sum game where somebody wins and somebody loses, then I don't know what anybody can tell them. Incredible.
     
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  4. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
    exactly, the last Testarossa I bought was in 2013, it was a 1990 with either 12k or 15k miles, red/tan no paintwork, fresh belt service and I paid $47,500 for it.
     
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  5. Jay R

    Jay R Karting

    Oct 6, 2017
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    James R 12345
    So, history aside, do you think those days are coming again?
     
  6. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2010
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    Ken S
    No.

    I was a broker/buyer from 2010-2017

    I do not think we will hit those run up numbers again, or lower prices, anytime soon.

    2013-14 was mayhem if you were "in it". I literally remember cold calling a 365GT4 owner, and buying it sight unseen after a 10 minute conversation because he had seen another one sell for $50K earlier that week.

    I turned down multiple Testarossas in the $40-60K price range, only to see them swell up to above $100K in a matter of weeks and months after.

    I remember laughing at a guy who wanted to sell me his 300sl Gullwing and 300sl Roadster, for $800K total. A month later, one went north of $1MM, and the market exploded.

    I don't think we will get back to sub-2012 prices though. I think we will see a standoff of sliding prices with owners that can afford to whether the storm for a certain amount of time, and stubborn holders at certain price points that match a few months ago pre-covid asks, but sub-$50K testarossa's with fresh belts and more? No.
     
  7. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Rookie
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    I agree with everything you're saying here except for the last paragraph. The prices went up abruptly and will fall even more abruptly. That's the way it always happens. Fear always trumps greed when the moment arrives.
     
  8. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2010
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    Ken S
    I think the subset of fearful owners will be a very small percentage though.

    Maybe 1 out of 10 guys will bail and lose more than 50%, but typically, Ferrari owners, and vintage car owners (NOT necessarily dealers) are quite prudent people, and while emotional about cars to a point, don't typically make poor financial decisions in split seconds based on fear.

    There is a 400i Manual in NorCal I have wanted to buy for years. But he paid $100K sometime in the 90's for it. He REFUSES to sell that car for what the market dictates it's worth (call it a $30K car, as it needs to be restored). He can't stomach the loss. He isn't wealthy, he SHOULD sell it, but he won't.

    Fear certainly trumps greed, but if the carrot dangling isn't worth the pain it takes to grab it, I see owners crossing their arms and just standing still for the moment and immediate future.
     
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  9. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Rookie
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    I have a family friend who is married to a crazy french guy who just sold his overseas. I think it was an 84 or 85. Family heirloom. He just sold it about 3 or 4 months ago, I think he got about 32 for it.

    You're right about the private owners being prudent. The problem is all of those cars that are still stuck in warehouses and cars held by people who were only in it for a buck. Those cars are coming to the market, one way or another.
     
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  10. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
    I'm not so sure about the owners being prudent and here is why, it seems like about every Testarossa seems to have a high number of owners, I know of some cars with over 20 owners over the years, it seems like the average lifespan for a Testarossa owner isn't very long, people buy them thinking they are these great cars then drive them and get a reality check and walk away with a different opinion but they are cool to park in your garage to look at as a showpiece.

    I'll bet I pick up another one if the market does go where I think it will.
     
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  11. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
    When do dealers open back up? I want to call and get a buy bid for a 1990 TR with 15k miles and see what price they will give and if I'll even get one.
     
  12. Natkingcolebasket69

    Rossa Subscribed

    I don’t think a good TR will go much lower than 80k vs 100k now


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Rookie
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    One thing I've learned in life the past few years is sometimes you have to fight irrationality with irrationality. If one of these dealers/brokers contacts you with the "prices are going up pitch" Just immediately start agreeing with them and then ask them what they want to sell you. Then once they offer the car (the stock that they're shorting) simply say, "Oh well as a matter of fact I have one sitting right here in the garage, full service history, no accidents, 9.5/10 condition. I see these are going for 100 grand currently, so if that's the case I'd be happy to sell you mine for 180? And like you said, they are a sure thing, like buying microsoft in the 80s. Deal? Then shutup, and listen. The conversation will take an incredible turn, and you won't believe your ears. It will be immensely entertaining. I encourage everyone on hear to do this if given the opportunity :)
     
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  14. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
    now, as in March 26th 2020
     
  15. Natkingcolebasket69

    Rossa Subscribed

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  16. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 F1 Rookie

    Jul 12, 2004
    3,146
    thats an impressive number for whats going on
     
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  17. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
  18. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
    A black 1987 45k mile one just brought $70k and this depression hasn't even started, it will be a deep depression not a recession.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
    I do
     
  20. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
  21. Natkingcolebasket69

    Rossa Subscribed

    Even better


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  22. Natkingcolebasket69

    Rossa Subscribed

    I been following the prices for a long time and 70k-80k is what It would have brought a couples months back. No impact yet; not to say there won’t be one.


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  23. Natkingcolebasket69

    Rossa Subscribed

    I think u have a point that prices are going to go down however those figures are exactly in line with has been happening this year and in 19. Way too early to make any observations. Sample way too small.


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  24. ChipG

    ChipG Formula Junior

    May 26, 2011
    977
    Santa Monica, CA
    not if you're worried about the money side, a 4k mile car is always worth more than a 10k mile car so if it was a 10k mile car it would probably be an $80k car or less, not a $91k car.
     

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