There is money to be made here... If someone can compile all of these detailed pics with half decent instructions (better than the ferrari manual), with a step by step guide, I would pay to buy a copy. Is there anyway this can be done? Perhaps rob can post it in the technical section for users as a perk... This issue with doing your own majors just keeps coming up, and a nice 20 page or so tutorial would be great, with pics. Really shouldn't be that hard for someone to do, if they did their own major and took pics!!! Come on, someone do this before my car is due in 4 years... PUUUHH-LEEZ!
Jimbo - PLEASE tell me what I have to do to get the photos. Do you have a list of parts ordered? And lastly- if I pull this off, I would be glad to contribute to some form of publication for the next person to use. Ernest.
Very impressive, no leaks! That reminded me of a post a while back, where the fcar dealer tech let some silicone block one of the holes for the lubrication proccess. The result for the angry poster, was spun bearings. Ouch. Is there much variance with TR, 512 and the M ?
Check out this reply by Bill Badurski on the FCA board to Ernest's question. Things that make you go hhhhmmmm ..... http://www.ferrariclubofamerica.org/FuseTalk/messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=1409 Kenny K
Well said! Unfortunately, your technician may have a financial interest in his answer. Do you know who doesn't? The Owner's Manual. Consult it. It says that the cambelts require an inspection only until 52,500 miles. That's the first mileage for replacement. There's no mention of time.
If your mechanic is any good he will be looking out for both your interests, that is the only type of successful long term relationship I have ever been aware of. That would be ignoring of course all the service bulletins printed by Ferrari over the years stating the contrary. I have been servicing belt driven Ferrari's almost since their introduction and it is foolhardy to go past the time limit. People get away with it every day. People get away with murder every day. I have a TR and it is sitting in my shop right now waiting it's turn in line to get it's belts replaced again. Last time was 5 years ago. If you feel you can tell from looking at the belts to determine their condition, most of the broken belts I have ever seen looked perfect except for the part that broke. Do it your own way, ignorance is bliss if somewhat expensive. Ferrari just like every other manufacturer does not put all the info in the owners manual. That is only an overview. The important information is in the shop manuals, the service bulletins and the mountains of tech information we are given at the service schools.
Brain, I know from previous posts that you know what you're talking about. A lot more than I do. Cambelt concerns is one reason I bought a Ferrari with chains, not belts! When I hear warnings about cambelts, it always strikes me as sales pitch for very expensive insurance, being pitched by the insurance salesman.
I have been critical of the decision to switch to belts almost from the begining and am very happy they (in that instance) have once again come to their senses.
You know everyone is talking about the risk and cost of belts. Has anyone considered the fact that TRs are depreciating faster than other models because of scare stories about belts snapping and service costs?
I don't see it as scare stories, I see as education for the disbelievers. This information has been around since the mid 70's when Ferrari started using belts. It is not my, nor anyone else's fault some chose not to listen. Service costs are a function of parts prices and the amount of time required to do the job. Both are set by Ferrari. Lodge a complaint with them. And besides when did Ferrari ever have a reputation for low operational costs? A TR motor can go 200k miles with out removing the heads, Prior to timing belts show me a Ferrari that can make that claim. How can TR's depreciate faster due to belts when almost every other model from the GT4 to the 575 have them too. Something tells me you have failed to consider a variety of market forces at work here. Besides on a per capita and miles driven basis I have seen more belt failures on 355's than any other model.
I have had the same experience with my 80s vintage Audis. One of them, with an irreplaceable all aluminum engine had no instructions in the manuals to do the belt and I did the first change at 17 years and 17000 miles and am the second owner. All its life involved plenty of D/E tracke events. The belt was perfect but the idler pulley was much more resisting than its replacement. So before making the decision based on what has been offered here, please remember that there are other issues such as the water pump and the idler pulleys whose problems could contribute to a belt failure that is nothing to do with the belt condition or its potential for deterioration because of ozone or engine revs. I also had to rebuild my water pump on a 456 and thus replace the belts too. Longe before the belt service was due. Now if there was a way to check these tensions or resistance on the TR without pulling the belt.....??
Good morning everyone. The comments are facinating and hope to see more but I, for one, believe the belts are worth changing. Plus, it's got to be a lot of fun doing it right Still looking for access to some photo archive - any ideas out there? As far as depreciation goes - not sure it's the belts. Does someone have statistics that actually show depreciation trends for various models? I've watched other models come down over the past few years as well. Would be interested in seeing some facts. Ernest.
Curious as to why ? Does this statement imply that chain driven valvetrains are tougher on heads than belt driven ? Kenny K
This leads me to think they broke for some reason that was not the belt's fault like shot tensioners. Can anyone say what the real cause of broken belts are? Ken
That is correct. And, if you drive your car TR an average of 15k miles a year or so, then a 52k mile cam belt change would be fine. Remember, the 52k recommendation in the OM is based on the "average driver" who drives their car 15k+ miles a year. Not, the average Ferrari driver that drives their Ferrari less than 3k miles per year.
One has nothing to do with the other. I was just pointing out that while some may be concerned about the cost of replacing belts they should look at the entire picture. With the durability of the engines the entire ownership costs might infact be less over many miles especially if you actually drive it. Think of a Ferrari as a horse, costs about the same if you use it or not.
While tensioners can cause problems it's rare. most belt failures I have seen were age, plain and simple. That is why we say 5 years. Yes many go much longer, some people smoke 50 years and don't get cancer, throw the dice or as Dirty Harry says do you feel lucky?
Welcome to Ferrari Chat Jean. It looks like Jimbo last logged in on the 29-4-11. Click here to send him a private message to get into contact with him. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/member.php?u=171 Take care and enjoy.
I started to make a do it yourself, step by step procedure...with pics and helpful hints. But unfortunately our computer crashed and all was corrupted...took me weeks to compile everything...and make it all understandable. Too bad...I've just never had the patience to re-assemble all that information again.
Of course you can do it yourself. But be prepared, be very prepared. To speak with Carguy - first thing you need is a plan. What do you want or need to do, just the belts or also valve clearance, valve timing, spark plugs, oil seals, hoses, A/C system? Then determine if you have the proper tools. Do you have the manual, the torque settings, measurement clocks for the valve timing, a locking tool so you can undo the center bolts for the camshaft sprockets, timing belt tension measurement, etc? Last of course you need the whole stack of new parts, and don't skimp, an engine out is quite a bit of work and if done right, you'll have a lot of joy from it. If not done right, you might soon after have the joy of doing it again . Once it's apart you have to finish it, so come prepared, or be prepared it'll take you months to get it back together again because of interruptions waiting for parts or tooling. Take your time anyway, if you do it for the first time and want do it right, expect the operation to take you a few days at least.
Hello, Sorry for resurrecting this zombie thread, but are there any guides for doing a 30k TR service available? I have the service manual, but I'm looking for much more information. I will be thoroughly documenting this process beginning sometime in January 2012. Anyone in the Denver / Castle Rock area that wants to help, let me know! rmorse at mdesignz dot com.
I am not sure how far you are from Boulder, but Dave Helms lives there and he is THE MAN http://www.****************.com/
Castle Rock is south of Denver, which is a LONG way down the Mountian from the Guru of Boulder. Might be worth the transport fee however.
