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Testarossa window motors....(sigh)

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by JohnMH, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,072
    Dubai, UAE
    After checking everything else I can think of, I have come to the conclusion that I need the thirty year old grease cleaned out and replaced in the window motors on my 91 TR. Voltage, relays and switches check out, the windows work, but really slowly. Raising the passenger window requires some ‘help’ by tugging upward on the glass.

    I assume there is no way to remove, disassemble and clean the motors without first removing the wires and glass? I live in fear of not being able to restore the windows to operating condition. The manual suggests lowering the windows before attempting service, but I would have thought having the window up would be a preferable way to start?

    I have heard this is an awful job and would be grateful for any suggestions. The bypass relay may be a future modification but probably will not help the gummed up motors.
     
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  3. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior

    May 27, 2010
    497
    Winnipeg, MB Canada
    Full Name:
    Jeff Blair
    There are numerous threads on this topic and unfortunately, it is not a "fun" job! It is very satisfying once your done and the windows fly up and down as they should. There is NO way to do this without removing the window motors, the glass can stay in the door propped up but I just removed it. Don't be "live in fear" :) it's just a car and I don't think there is anything you can really do wrong in attempting this job, the rewinding of the window cable will drive you nuts, I have a tool that keeps the wire on the motor during install and can ship it to you if you like. I did install the Rodney Dickman window accelerators and would suggest you do this as my windows have been perfect for the past 5 years. If you attempt this I'm sure numerous people will help you out with some guidance. Good luck.
     
  4. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jun 30, 2006
    3,955
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    I did it last year. Its relatively easy skill wise. Its just tedious and a little messy.
     
  5. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2013
    692
    Gaston, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Brian Healy
    I've done both 328 and testarossa windows, neither is really THAT hard. I manufacture machine tools, and have found how BAD grease can get in a short time. I used to use LUBRIPLATE, a nice easy to use white lithium grease that comes in tubes. When I did a lot of engine rebuilds, it was my bearing grease for the bearing shells. This grease turns to CONCRETE in less than ten years. I would NEVER use this grease for anything other than short term lubrication. Other greases I've used in high precision angular contact bearings for grinders also have a short life. Some of my machine tool heads are frozen solid in less than ten years. A grease I've found that DOESN'T harden with age is a Kluber bearing grease. It's expensive for a grease, but having parts freeze up is much more expensive. I've taken apart grinding heads I made fifteen years ago, and the grease is as fluid now as it was when I built them. So beware, DO NOT use Lubriplate in your window gearbox, or you'll be doing the same job in less than ten years.

    Easy to complain about the stiff windows, and blame it on some bad design by ferrari, but the hardening grease, which is what I found in ALL of my window motors, is the real culptrit.
     
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  7. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,883
  8. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,072
    Dubai, UAE
    Thanks for the suggestions, I have bookmarked all the threads I have found in FC, studied the shop manual and now am studying grease. The fear is, as always, that it is easy to take anything apart, but some vital setting or placement will be missed and the mechanism will not go back together or operate as it should. I understand even the factory shop manual contains errors when describing the cable routing. I can do an engine out major quite easily and quickly on my TR so have moderate skills; for those that have done this, approximately how long did the job take per window?
     
  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    6,613
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    not even 2 hours, first time I would say max. 4 hours
    but it depends how easy it is to remove the old grease and clean all
     
  10. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2017
    1,028
    Allentown, PA
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Hi Jeff-

    Could you post a picture of the tool you created? I'd like to perform this job too.
     
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  12. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    4,999
    Madison Ohio
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    David A.
    What about synthetic grease, does it harden with age?
     
  13. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,072
    Dubai, UAE
    Degreasing using kerosene is probably the easy part, it is the routing of the cables that worries me. I have seen pictures of that tool which keeps the cable in place on the spool, but when I disassemble the gear mechanism to clean out the old grease, do I not have to remove the tool? I found Kluber online, but the shipping alternatives are awful. Anything else which would last for years without hardening?
     
  14. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior

    May 27, 2010
    497
    Winnipeg, MB Canada
    Full Name:
    Jeff Blair
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    6,613
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    I fix the wire with normal cable ties
     
  16. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,072
    Dubai, UAE
    Anyone use red rubber grease on the plastic gears in the motor? Vegetable based, but will it last? The Klueber stuff is not available where I am.
     
  17. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,883
    Over the last 30+ years the grease/oil products have greatly improved. Personally, I use a general purpose lithium based grease... Valvoline Crimson is my typical go-to.

    The color is obvious and helps me to ensure that it is never mixed (bad) with other grease types.

    If it needs replacement after 30 years, you can bet that the window lift assembly ought to have a close inspection for any other issues that may have also arisen.

    Don’t sweat the grease type.... just get fresh, quality grease on it.

    PS: to the best of my knowledge, there is no industry standard for measuring longevity. It is all just marketing hype. Chime in if you know differently!
     
  18. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,072
    Dubai, UAE
    Having not been in there yet, are the gears plastic or metal?
     
  19. 302Tim

    302Tim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 2, 2011
    1,177
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Yes. Motor gear is metal, winding gear is plastic.
     
  20. fridolin_pt

    fridolin_pt Karting

    Mar 25, 2008
    110
    Germany NRW
    What is lastige longer:
    plastic gear or grease
     
  21. 302Tim

    302Tim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 2, 2011
    1,177
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Tim
    When I took mine apart the plastic gear on both sides was fine, just the grease was bad.
     

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