Pirelli vs Vredestien vs Michelin vs Blockley https://www.cinturato.net/images/test-classic-tyres-0716.pdf
Quite comical isnt it. the Pirelli knocks the rest of them into a cocked hat. What is also amazing is that in some catagories in that the Pirelli scored a 1. These tests arent specially for classic cars. that is saying that in dry braking the Pirelli scored as good possible score as the best of modern tyres, which isnt a driterior i expected them to do well in. Its true bonus is how well it handles fitted on an old chassis. the fact it performs so well in these other criterior is impressive. (I guess its score for rolling resistance is its only let down. but then that wasnt a thing they considered in tyre production in the 60s and 70s.) Hopefully we will have these back on the shelf soon https://www.borrani.com/205-70-r-14-pirelli-cinturato-cn36.html Image Unavailable, Please Login
And obviously for comparisons/testing to be more accurate/meaningful, instead of using just one (911 & not counting the VW Golf), they should be conducted with at least two or three different type/variations of cars designed/intended to use same/similar tires, i.e. front vs mid engine layout, lighter vs heavier, etc.
Well there is something in that but where do you draw the line. It is a very expensive exerise. i was involved in the testing of these tyres https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione/stella-bianca.html with Pirelli, there is a lot of time involved in swapping wheels and tyres on cars, and you need a track. It takes a lot of time and involvement. from memory we had about 20 tyres to test we used 2 cars and 3 different drivers. What was nice was that all 3 drivers agreed which was the best tyre structure, which tied up with what the Pirelli technitians thought was going to be best, so that kept it simple.
Dougal, I can completely understand time and money involved, but for any “apples-to-apples” type product comparison test, and not just automotive or tires, to appear even reasonably comprehensive and unbiased, it should (at least IMO) have broad enough variety, not to mention absolutely no financial or support personnel influence/involvement/input from any manufacturer (or retailer) of products being tested, with perhaps an exception if ALL manufacturers being tested donate equal lump sum to be used for indirect costs like track rent, etc., along with equal quantity of their own product (to be tested) and obviously all this should be clearly disclosed in the final test report or article. If I’m not mistaken, here in the US there is (or was ?) a publication called Consumer Report or something, which might offer a closest thing to unbiased testing and reporting on variety of (consumer) products with least amount of (obvious) influence from their manufacturers or retailers.
I purchased a set of CN36s (vs. XWX) a few years ago based almost entirely on this test. I haven’t been disappointed.
Hi Well the good news is that Pirelli have just made a new batch https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione/cinturato-cn36/205-70wr14-pirelli-cinturato-cn36.html
“… a few years ago …” ? So presumably either (almost) worn out or over-aged. Planning to replace them (soon) with same or something else ?
Due to the length of restoration they aren’t worn at all and I have no plans to replace them right now. I’m not overly concerned about the age.
I'm only seeing this post now, but thanks so much for sharing it. I've been paying close attention to real-world comments about vintage tires on forums for many years to help select new tires. The enigma (to me at least) has been that while a few love the Michelin XWX, I've seen far more bad stories about their performance, particularly in wet, from those who have actually owned them. Despite more negative feedback than positive (from what I've seen at least), the XWX still seems to be largely seen as a "go to" tire. The XWX's look kind of bloated to me in general anyway. I've heard good things about Vredstien and better things about Pirelli vintage tires, so it's good to see this test corroborates all of this. This data, on top of all the word of mouth I've been tracking, makes it a "no brainer" to go with Pirelli. Just now need to figure out which Pirelli type is best for 215/70-15.
As far as I know, not a real solution, especially if safety is any concern. Tires age, regardless of use or storage, period. Besides, how do you know their performance is less disappointing than XWX if you haven't driven/used them extensively or at all ?
To be clear: I’ve had XWX on Porsche 914/6, 330GTC* and BMW 3.0CS. CN36 on Mercedes-Benz R107*, Porsche 911 and 308GT4*. Based on my experience I found the Pirellis equal or superior to the Michelins, but it’s purely subjective. All those cars are very different from one another, so a laboratory-perfect scientific comparison is impossible. Since I don’t use my cars for track days, my data comes through feedback from the car, not timing equipment. The results of the comparison test that Dougal provided, although not rigorously scientific, speak for themselves……as does the difference in price. Aesthetically (a minor consideration) I consider the Michelins to have a better “look” but I can’t see them when I’m driving. *”Vintage” tires, not O.E.M.
Hi When comparing these things i might chuick a couple of points in the ring. Michelin XWX didn't score coparatively well in the wet, but even the 3 is the average score available and out of the 4 wet tests the Michelin was above average, and only one was a -3. so these tyres on balance are still above average in the wet. Though i must admit i was supprised by the wet results of this tyre in the test. I would also suggest that Michelin are renown for their performance in heat. If you are in a hot climate Michelin are a safe bet. Its all about carcass integrity. On the subject of carcass integrity, there was a point when we used to sell quite a few Vredestein tyres because they were historically great value, which they don't seem to be now. But the complaint we got about them was this big divot in the side wall which is something you do get in tyres, specially with tall side walls, but the Vredestein was quite pronounced, which didn't instill you with faith, though i would say there was never any evidence of it causing any failures. Image Unavailable, Please Login But then as i might have mentioned before i am not a fan of the design of the Vredesteins look. I am however a fan of Pirelli and Michelin. I think i am going to get Pirelli Cinturato tattooed on one bum cheak and M. Bibendum on the other. The reason is; we flog loads of these tyres and we don't get come back complaints on them. All we get is people coming back to us and saying "Wow! Its loads better on these tyres. I thought you were talking rubbish when you kept banging on about how a proper period carcass suits a classic car chassis, but now i have fitted them it turns aout you weren't talking out your.........."
Hi Just a note to those who are interested. Pirelli have made a fresh batch of 205/70VR14 Cinturato CN36. It is the only other tyre to consider in my mind next to the XWX. https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/205-70wr14-pirelli-cinturato-cn36.html there has been another tyre test done on classic tyres by the same German magazine, it didnt include the CN36, but it did include 2 other Pirelli Collezione tyres, the CN12 won, and the P5 came second, but the P5 is designed for a very different power steering car compared to the one used in the test, so great results. https://www.longstone.com/images/tire-test/auto-bild-klassik-205-70-r15-jaguar-tire-test.pdf It is worth buying the Sets of 4 or 5 they make for a bargain. (The same applies to the XWX actually). There are international distributors for Collezione range listed on here. (the film is also cool if you like E-Type Jags and mini skirts) https://cinturato.net/ If there isnt a distributor in your country dont worry we ship all over the world. If you are in the EU with a country without a distributor we also deal with all the duty and taxes cause d by BREXIT. what you see is what you pay there are no hidden brexit taxes or hold ups.
Avon CR6ZZ. Tops. Tried on 4 different cars, GTA, 911, 365, E-type. Never go back to anything else. Best tyre around bar none. Looks the part too. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I think there's a MUCH bigger issue. Several years ago I contacted both Coker AND Michelin and asked when was the last time the currently available XWXs were tested to their VR speed rating, and neither gave me an answer. Michelin has shifted the XWX production locations from country to country (apparently now they are made in Serbia). Why are Coker and Michelin unwilling, or unable, to answer a pretty simple question?
Very simple, they are not interested to talk to you or to me, or anyone else who is not on their list. Regards, Alberto
Well, tire manufacturers must stamp a tire rating (VR for example) on their tires, so I can file an inquiry with any number of U.S. government agencies, including specifically, the The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the agency responsible for the ratings and the rating system. All tires sold for roadgoing cars are required to have the ratings on their sidewalls. Several Federal motor vehicle safety standards and consumer information regulations relate to the standard reference test tire (SRTT) used therein. The SRTT is used in those standards and regulations as a baseline tire to rate tire treadwear, define snow tires based on traction performance, and evaluate pavement surface friction. I will post contact information for some of the relevant offices on soon. Maybe this will get Coker and Michelin's attention.
Hi I am a bit unnaware of what your concern is about the XWX tyres. Michelin continuously test these tyres, every batch. It is an ongoing part of their quality control systems in the top modern tyre factories belonging to top manufacturers like Michelin, who use their own factory to produce tyres. That is why neither yourselves or anyone else ever has a problem with them. Worth noting also that the 205/70VR14 XWX is W rated. However for fashion reasons they still write VR on the side wall in an attempt to keep the tyre looking like it did in the day. When it comes to comparing proper period tyre like the XWX or Pirelli CN36 for instance, these tread patterns were designed back in the 1960s where they didnt have the massive benefits of computer modeling of the tread pattern which has a few advantages, moving water is relatevely easy, but the rolluing resistence and noise are issues that a classic tyre cannot compete with. Handling wise these period tyres are better on your car, but they will be noisier, and give a bit more rolling resistence. the next 205/70VR14 Michelin XWX to leave our shed will have the date code 3524. pretty good for an obsolete tyre. https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/ferrari/246-gts-dino.html I dont dispute that the CR6ZZ is a great handling tyre on a classic car of '60s and '70s (Sort of '50s as well, but you do sort of end up turning a '50s car into a '70s car, so whats the point.). however what i would say is that the CR6ZZ does have some draw backs as a road tyre in that it is racing rubber. https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/vintage-tyres/avon-cr6zz.html longevity isn't their strong point, its a racing tyre why would it be? aging is also an issue for lots of classic car owners. Also it isnt going to give you the best ride quality. The appearance baffles me. i don't understand why people think it looks right? I dont dispute they are good tyres, and it is speculative, because i haven't as yet come accross any back to back test, but as a road tyre, i would suggest, the CN36 is more is better. (i have driven on both, but not on the same car.)
I do not use the tyres for the mileage, as have to replace by the time they are aged. Ride quality is fine for me.... Regards, Alberto
Hi Sorry I dont think i am understanding this right. Are you changing the tyres because they are too old? or Are you replacing the tyres because the tread is bald?
