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Thank you Birdman!

Discussion in '308/328' started by RBV24961, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie
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    Why do they sell lacquer thinner :D
     
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  3. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2003
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    Rocco
    to sniff
     
  4. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 F1 Rookie

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    Bingo!
     
  5. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    +1
     
  6. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 F1 Rookie

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    #80 Jay GT4, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  8. shashi27

    shashi27 Formula Junior
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    Jan 7, 2006
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    My original fuse boxes showed melting in at least one terminal. I can't think why anyone would want to test a potential fire in their car no matter how remote.
     
  9. AN-M

    AN-M Formula Junior

    Jun 30, 2012
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    André
    I love to read numbers and can't deny that both upgrades looks better on paper (your fusebox looks beautiful and well engineered btw). But all the halleluja testimonies about brighter headlights and better running engines is rather due to corrosion in the old ones, not because Birdmans fusebox is better than OEM, not saying that it isn't. If your numbers are correct, a power loss difference of about 1 or 2W isn't visible in the headlights.

    As I said, I really love your design Sam and would certainly order if they became available.
     
  10. antoninosavoca

    antoninosavoca Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2011
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    antonino savoca
    Hallo Sam, i have read now abouth your very good fuse box,i ask if you have it for my EU 308 GT 4 m.y. 1978
    thank you v. m.
    best regards
    Antonino from Italy
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/136563619-post37.html
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/136920194-post96.html

    Also, to those that thank the fuse block problem is solely a problem with the car... this is not always the case, as there are inherent problems with the OEM block's design and construction and my test data clearly shows this. That being said, problems with a car's electrical components/systems will certainly enhance OEM fuse block issues.

    Cheers,

    Sam[/QUOTE]
     
  11. jimangle

    jimangle Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Couldn't one just inspect and clean any/all connections, and grounds (wire brush) on the current fuse box and save themselves from having to purchase a new fuse box as a preventative measure? Also couldn't you also apply a dielectric grease for future protection from corrosion,resistance on all connections?

    Jim
     
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  13. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Some people 're-hammer' the OEM rivits, while others solder the joins, clean the contacts, and add grease. All these are band-aids and do not address some of the fundamental design issues with the block. The fuse panel shoud not require care and maintenance. It should be as much a set it and forget it thing. Too many owners are reminded of the need for this 'maintenance' when a little puff of smoke comes from behind the dash.

    As for the fuseblocks Sam came up with I will say that they are very nice and a more elegant and complete solution than the glass fuse option. I am sure that he would do well to offer them again and it is a nice plus to be able to fit the fuse block covers.
     
  14. vaccarella

    vaccarella Formula 3

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    Aww, c'mon. More classic cars require fuse boards to be looked after and inspected from time to time than not. Especially if stereo upgrades, lights, alarms etc etc were added or modified to potentially overload circuits.

    If you've never looked at your fuse panel in 10 years then I'd worry about the car's overall maintenance regime.

    It doesn't mean you have to replace something that isn't broken, though. You should have a look at it first to check condition. Easily accessible, easy enough.
     
  15. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 F1 Rookie

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    +1

    Exactly what I said. My originals lasted over 30 years and I replaced them with OEM boxes. If they last another 30 I'm happy. I'm not saying don't use Birdman's boxes but I see no need to use them unless all you care about is saving a few bucks.
     
  16. opus10583

    opus10583 Formula 3

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    The point is not to save a few bucks... it's to replace defectively designed and engineered and shoddily manufactured electrical components with correct items.

    Brian: Why don't you post a picture of the magnificent and sacred, melted, original blocks?

    Ciao,
    Mark
     
  17. RBV24961

    RBV24961 Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    283
    Rye, New York
    HA! I think we all know what they look like, but I will try to think of this tomorrow prior to heading to NYC. All I wanted to do is thank Jonathan and tell of my positive experience! It may be of interest that my car was updated with Crane ignition control boxes which may have stressed my fuse boxes in addition to the bad design.
     
  18. opus10583

    opus10583 Formula 3

    Dec 3, 2003
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    You should have known better.

    ...because the original dual-point dual-distributor setup was a kludge in the first place.

    Ciao,
    Mark
     
  19. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    I just read through this thread...well there's 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

    Jonathan - what the hell were you thinking?!?!...making such a controversial item like a replacement fuse box ;)
     
  20. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Patrick,

    I did respond to you a week or so ago, as you sent me an e-mail via Fchat. As for my mailbox... I leave it full, as I do not log in too much and so any PM's would not be seen by me for quite a while. Emailing direct is always best and I usually respond within a day or two.

    As for my blocks... I just did the initial run and that was it. Although the blocks may look "easy" to manufacture there is a lot to them and are actually quite time intensive... there are a number of sub-assemblies and steps to create the final product. Not too mention that there are some pretty stiff upfront fees for materials and setups. That being said I may do some in the future, but work duties have and will be taking up a lot of my time over the next several months. However, I recently acquired some specialty electronic assembly equipment and so once I ramp up on its use it is possible that I could minimize the time and cost of two of the assembly steps (PCB assembly as well as hand reflowing/touching up the automated process).

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  21. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Fave,

    Some blocks actually do not have stickers, but an anodized aluminum plate... at least that is how the block labeling is on my BB.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  22. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Ciao Antonio,

    Sadly, I no longer have any in stock and I have no immediate plans to make any. I may later this year, but I cannot give you a time frame... my apologies!

    Saluti da Salvatore
     
  23. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Jay,

    What can be said here? Do as you see fit... whether it be the originals, Birdman's, or mine... the important point is to check and inspect them.

    However I have to ask a question given your comments:

    With this train of thought...If or when you need to rebuild your heads on your 308 will you be replacing the original Sodium filled values with Stainless ones? After all they lasted <insert time here> years so why not keep using this OEM technology? Unless, ofcourse, you just want to save a few bucks and replace them with the more modern Stainless valves... I say this tongue in cheek, as your comment (and logic) is making an unfair generalization. In your car's case it appears accurate (although how do you know your blocks were not changed out at some point?), but there are a number of other cases where this is completely false and my test data definitely shows a problem with the OEM blocks... like it or not the fact remains.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  24. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 F1 Rookie

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    Hi Sam. Again I have no problem if someone wants to change boxes. Like you said the important thing is to inspect them and make sure they aren't over loaded. Check the connectors and replace as needed, and yes I replaced my connectors with original connectors not the modern Radio Shack versions. Too many people have had their hands in these cars adding alarms, stereos, amps, brighter bulbs, electronic ignition... you name it they've done it. But if you have an original car with no electrical issues and you check your boxes regularly you'll be fine.

    I'm not a purist. Sodium valves...yes I changed them. When we rebuilt the motor and were doing the valve adjustment the very last valve snapped simply from the pressure of putting a shim in. That is a very different scenario than a fuse box...you can see the problems of a bad box...burn marks, melting, electronic issues but with a valve....no warning...

    So the bottom line is take care of your car and check it often. If it needs new fuse boxes change them with whatever floats your boat...
     
  25. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie
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    Your are correct, I have never seen them as stickers on original covers but I figured saying stickers was easier as that is how they are most likely being reproduced, if they are at all.
     
  26. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Jay,

    You are absolutely right... adding to the already weak electrical system will accelerate a block's demise... However, I disagree with your "But if you have an original car with no electrical issues and you check your boxes regularly you'll be fine." comment... I say this, as what you define as fine could be different to others. Indeed, will the original blocks ignite if checked and inspected regularly? Probably not... But the most probable is that they can leave you stranded (and/or cause lower voltages to the car's electrical system)... I say this as it happened to me one day with the original blocks in my BB... All of sudden during a drive, my BB started backfiring and stumbling and so I had to pull over, as the car was not drivable. After checking a number of things I checked the fuse panel and specifically the fuel pump circuits. All looked fine, but I still took out the fuses, cleaned them even though they "looked" ok, but I felt that the fuse clamping force was a little weak. So I bent the clip a bit more and tada I was back in biz... It was then that I knew the blocks had to go... Would this issue be found by a visible inspection? Not really unless I was specifically looking for this mode of failure. Secondly, some block failures are the result of loose rivets and the only way to really check this is to physically remove the blocks. How often to people/technicians remove the blocks in the absence of no prior issues? Simply peering into the glove box and looking at the blocks will not give you the total picture. Would it not be better to have a block that addressed these fundamental issues? Secondly, if the OEM block design was sounds, then why has it not been used anytime in recent history?... Obviously there is no one reason for this, but if the design was good, then some manufacturer would have continued to use it.

    In regards to my Sodium valve analogy...sadly, I did a poor job at explaining my point. Would you have changed out your sodium valves had you not saw one break for no apparent reason? My guess is that you probably would have replaced them given that empirical evidence surrounding sodium filled valve failures (doesn't this sound familiar to the fuse block issues?). Secondly, given that you saw a failure first hand I am sure that this also stiffened your conviction to change them out...well I submit there are people who have had similar experiences with their fuse blocks and thus explains their convictions.

    I realize I am splitting hairs here, but I think it is important that one recognize that there are issues with the OEM blocks even though not everyone has had issues with them.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  27. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 F1 Rookie

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    #99 Jay GT4, Feb 20, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
    Actually If I'm honest I just don't want something called "Birdman" in my car! :D
     
  28. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran

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    #100 Ferraridoc, Feb 20, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
    Thanks, Sam

    I'll install my blade fuse boxes, but retrofit yours when you make another run. I got your PM, thanks.

    Cheers

    Patrick
     

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