The $20,000 308....

Fantastic car!

 

Excellent infomation here. E-Bay cars are not all crap it is just that too many people are way to lazy to find out proper information before buying. It is much easier to judge on something you have never seen than actually take the time to make an informed comment or decision.

 

Just curious with this statement, this is a private guy selling 10-12 exoitcs on ebay ? In Canada this is against the law, its called Curb siding....we had a real problem here with people pretending to sell THEIR car, instead they were selling anything and everything they could .... and passing it off as there own car...and what was happening was alot of either , flooded cars, damaged cars, and the likes..... this has always been my fear of buy on the internet even with the PPI....there have been many shops here talking not doing a PPI because they dont want to get involved....just curious, was he a private guy ? and f so, where is he getting these cars to sell for below market value ? Or what some on here seem to preceive as great value ?

 

I am loving this thread...

I paid a bit over $20k for mine, but couldnt be happier with it.


PDG
'85 308 GTS QV

 

not sure how you can say ebay sales is the market for anything ... let alone exotics. There are many forms of sales.

Again, you need to compare apples with apples...one or 2 , or 5 cars does not mean its the market...just because something was sold on ebay a few times. Its like saying an RM auction selling a 308 restored for 200K is now the the going rate...or Newman restore on his 308. Its not like buying pants made in China thats a commdity...though i know you Americans love to Wal Mart everything....somethings alittle more exclusive are a tad harder...even the 308s that were mass produced

But i would like to hear from mtliam...not to go too off topic...but where would a private guy get to sell 10-12 cars on ebay ???? He must be buying them from somewhere ?? you think he is buying them from ebay and flipping them ? Or you think he is buying them from your so called dealers at wholesale ? Just curious

 

Cliff, the reality is that you seem to have gotten a fantastic F-car at a great price. I've purchased a car from e-bay and so has my sister. Neither was an exotic but both of those transactions have thus far been good for us too. I agree with you. Buying an exotic this way may take a very special hand built vehicle with a well earned F badge of honor and in theory at least commodize it, however, it brings together more buyers with more sellers, so the price might better represent the true market....at least at that moment in time. Timing is everything. Well done! Enjoy that beauty!

 

[
But i would like to hear from mtliam...not to go too off topic...but where would a private guy get to sell 10-12 cars on ebay ???? He must be buying them from somewhere ?? you think he is buying them from ebay and flipping them ? Or you think he is buying them from your so called dealers at wholesale ? Just curious[/QUOTE]

THe guy that handled the ebay sell of my car...or I should say he sold it for the P.O.
Is a guy that grew up in Atlanta and his father had Ferraris when he was young. He's had about 3 himself. He told me he grew up knowing all the Ferrari guys in the Area and remembers as a kid, always hanging out with these guys. His family does Capital investments for commerial real estate in Atlanta and other cities. He knows just about all the guys that own Ferrari's in the area and when one guy wants to sell one, they call him up. He's about 34 years old or so, and more comfortable with using Ebay. He was a knowlegable guy, but selling cars is something he just does for friends, His real job is meeting with wealthy guys and getting them to invest in his commerial office complexes, since the banks don't like to lend anymore

I'm sure it goes something like this. Hey Tony, I have a Ferrari I'm not using anymore and want to sell it....How much you think I can get for it? So and So told me you sold their car for them on ebay....Can you sell mine for me?

I'm real happy with mine and drive it all the time, As far as my car knows, it still thinks its a 40,000.00 328 .....Dont tell it it costs only 27,800 plus a set a new tires (800.00)

 

But here is your flaw....brick and mortar dealers dont sell at 20K...and how do you know every shop in the globe that has a 308 that has sold ? I know of 308s and other cars that are sold through word of mouth...the ferrari market letter, ferrari club events...how can you say that ebay sells x100 more ? You are assuming these status.

Second, buying any used car is subjective...i may have different standards in a car than you, hence a 20K car is not considered market for me....a restored and concourse car in the 6 digit range may not be your cup of tea either...you cannot paint all cars with the same brush and assume that 20K ...30K...40K...whatever the number is the going rate because ebay said it.

Finally, i have been on this board for 6 yrs now and i have seen this post of the 20K 308 more times than snow flakes up here in the great white north And funny enough all those buyers that were on here high fiving are all pretty much disappeared, excpet for a few old timers....and judging by some of the others that are on here in this very post with a 2007 and 2009 join date , im willing to bet that in 6 yrs time some (if not most) of you will no longer have your 308 and no longer be on here and i will be having the same discussion with a guy just joined that has bought your car, saying he got a great car for 20K

I can assure you there is the exception of finding a decent car at a decent price, but its not the rule...even a broken clock is right twice a day

We can agree to disagree.....im fine with that

 

Well, I have been on this board for 9 years and I am STILL waiting for your claim that 308's will be moving for over 100K in the next year or two. And you said that back in, what, 06 or 07?

Either way, wanna bet I'll still have my $30,000 308 QV in 6 years?

 

For the record, I would love for my car (these cars) to be worth 6 figures.

I am just saying it ain't gonna happen.

 

It was 2007

And i my previous post i said some old timers still here not all

And Newman is the only one that you know of that has restored a 308 and gotten close to the 6 figures....Surely you dont think someone will spend 100K on a daily driver 308 .... i was talking about as in new condition cars...but you must have fogotten that since you gotten older now

Happy New Year Tommy !

 

You too

 

several friends and i came up with this $25,000 rule several years ago. all of us can , and have afforded the high dollar cars at one time or another. but what all of us found, while sitting around on weekends in each other garages playing with the cars, that worrying about the money in the expensive cars soured the fun.

i have a good friend with several fun cars, and a Countach. the Countach is "cool", i have enjoyed every drive and ride i have been allowed in the car, but i would rather have 2-3 $20-$25k cars, instead of just the one Countach.


much like having a TR or BB, worrying about if that $17,000 diff is going to blow apart, i would rather have a $20,000 308, and blow the whole car up and chop it up, to regain some of my money back, rather than roll the dice and have something major break on a very expensive car. to me the cheap cars can be fixed, replaced, or sold off for parts if they have a "major failure". much like i used to do with the 70s Gm F bodies i used to love so much.

i know some folks can afford the $20k engine work, or $17,000 trans axle rebuild, but a broke car in the garage or at the shop means i am not out driving. i would rather be driving a cheap exotic car and enjoying it year round, rather than waiting for parts, waiting on "perfect weather" and so on.

i think the lower level cars will always appeal to the gearhead. i dont do "all" of my own work, but i do most of it. i detest paint work for example, and leather work / repair.

having a cheap car, and then paying $110 an hour plus parts mark up to a shop is what kills the cars to begin with and causes them to sit, and become "cheap cars".


the computer crap cars are taking over. there are way less buyers for those, than the old stuff, so i do think prices will rise, and keep up with inflation. given the crappy economy, and the warning signs about the failing commercial real estate markets impact due yet to come, its safe to say there will still be lots of fun cheap cars out there for those with some cash, and some skills to work on them.


Curb stoning, as its called in the States is a felony most times, and gets you in local, state and federal trouble all at the same time. here in Georgia you must not sell more than 6 cars a year as an individual, and you must not cash flow more than $200,000 or there are stiff tax penalties that will be levied. i can barely enjoy and work on 2-3 cars a year, so i am safe, and i have an attorney and CPA keep the paperwork in order. but i would not want to be one of these guys rolling lots of high dollar cars and boats through their home garages without the proper papers in order. they will find you. and they will get you, as many states are starving for money, and they want more of ours!


i paid $1200 in taxes on that 1987 Porsche slopenose when i bought it in order to get a tag and title. i knew there was no way around it, and i wanted the car, but how many of these $70,000 muscle cars do you think slip by with cheap tags and cheap taxes, because they are an old Ford or Chevy. i think those days are numbered as well. i have been fighting the ad-velor um taxes here tooth and nail every chance i get, and it makes some of the old Lambos and Ferrari's not worth having to me.

 

I couldn't agree more!

I am probably more middle-class than most on this forum, (working for a non-profit, 3 kids still at home one of whom attends the local jr college, married to a wonderful stay-at-home mom), but I am still planning to buy a Ferrari like those being described in this thread. I have also secretly disagreed with the "no such thing as a cheap Ferrari" generalization. (As my son likes to say, "All generalizations are bad." ;0) I have met people who bought relatively inexpensive Ferrari's and have gotten great deals. In every case, they were people who enjoyed doing their own work and had the time and ability. Those that got bad deals did not do their due diligence, homework, and probably did not due their own work.

Its the dream of an inexpensive, reliable, daily driver that keeps me coming back to this forum where I continue to get the pre-purchase education I need to avoid the money-pits that would pull me under financially. Its still a dream for me, but its not a myth.

I really like this thread, because in the lower price ranges, owners seem to care less about admitting what they paid for their cars, and this information is very encouraging and helpful to me as a prospective very-middle-class buyer.

 

My bargin basement `79 dry sump carbed 308 gtb, £16k 2 years ago. Great fun with out breaking the bank and not too exspensive to leave when out.
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Great post. Keep the examples coming!

 

I fully agree that you can get just as much out of this hobby if you spend $25k as you would spending $250k or $2.5mm. It is not about the money, it is about having fun.

 

I saw that auction too and saved it. I showed the pics to my wife and told her that something fishy was going on, looking at the paint flaking off the valve covers and the overall "rode hard and put up wet" look to the engine made me skeptical to say the least.

On another note, I just joined today and have learned a lot in the couple hours I have sat here in front of this fireplace on a dreary day (reminds me of my home in Buckley, WA in the winter). I have lusted after the 308 since I was in high school and after all these years and all the cars I've admired, I keep coming back to the 308. To me there is no car ever made that is sexier than it is to my eyes anyway, barr none.

One day I'll own one now that I know I can do the servicing myself without killing the value of the car. I used to ride a BMW R1150GS all over the north Greogia mountains and surrounding twisty road places until my clutch slipped one day.
I called the BMW motorcycle dealer in Atlanta to inquire about the price of a clutch change. It was well over a thousand bucks so I decided to do it myself.

There is a lot of labor involved but to me as an aircraft mechanic, it was really nothing and for a couple hundred bucks I had a new clutch and was riding again after the weekend. The same holds true for the Ferrari 308 that I have dreamed about for nearly 30 years. I can work on it and if I ever get this garage cleaned out I'm going to start hunting for one. Thanks to all of you who have made this forum what it has become.

 

Like others have said, you are right on target Carreaper about the $25,000 rule. However, I don't agree with the $110 an hour plus part mark-up comment at all. I think just the opposite actually.

Having someone who can fix these car so that they do run and really run right, makes the "cheap" car ownership experience that much more enjoyable. I actually think it's the hack mechanic (whether that's the F-owner himself or some shop that claims to be able to work on these cars but can't) is what ruins everything about the car hobbie. Yes there are tons on guys on this sight who know absolutely everything about these cars, but there are still posts today asking what to do now that my mechanic (or worse the F-owner) screwed things up. And how many responses are a list of 10 action items-rule out this as a problem? How long does it take to really understand how a Ferrari works? 5 years of tinkering? or 10?

Sure it's just a car, but it's so much more as everyone here knows. And it's not just for gearheads. I have an engineering background. I have a professional degree. And I love tinkering. I even think I'm somewhat mechanically inclined. I charged my first car battery at age 4. I've changed starters, plugs, belts, etc. in the past. But none of that makes me a Ferrari expert mechanic, despite the fact that I'm reading every thread over and over.

I totally respect the work done by Newman and Mk E, and others, because it really is impressive what they have/are doing. The help everyone offers on this site is wonderful, and it's nice to have such knowledgable group of enthusiasts only a click away. Buying the best you can up front makes perfect sense, but if you don't and you're honest with yourself about your abilities, and financially prepared for the pain to get the car back to where it came from, without cutting corners and using someone who truly understands Ferrari, the ownership experience of one of these classic or antique automobiles is likely to be that much more enjoyable.

I hope that 2010 gives all of us lots of free time and nice sunny days for rides in your Ferrari. I wish you all a happy and healthy New Year.

 

Ive thought about having several cheaper cars or one more expensive car and I keep leaning back to one "very special" car rather than 3 run-of-the-mill cars. First of all Im blue collar all the way - ford mechanic at a dealer so blowing heaps of cash on any car requires thought and planning....and discussing with my wife. I do all my own work except apply paint so I save on labour but having 3 ferraris, lets say 308's, keeping them in top shape constantly is very expensive and time consuming. Keeping one special car like the boxer is a lot less work and I bet a lot less money AND a better investment than 3 308's. Dont forget insurance costs on 3 cars, tires for 3 cars probably due to age than use and you can only use one car at a time. If you dont care about the quality or level of perfection on your small collection of 308s and having more mediocre toys makes you happy rather than one exceptional car then thats cool because everyone is different. If you have a high standard like I do then 3 cars will be super expensive to keep, a 308 almost as much as a boxer, if you have a low or medium standard then it will cost you when you decide to sell them or something major breaks, it wont be worth fixing so investment lost.

 

I forgot to mention my thoughts on the price and the worry factor. Ill admit picking up my boxer and driving it home an hour away in traffic did cause heart palpitations that ill never forget. However, after having this car for almost 5 years now I can say that you lose perspective of value or at least I did. Its a car, its a ferrari, its expensive blah blah blah but the cost (to me) seems to diminish and its just a number. To me its a super cool car first, cost second and it makes me feel more exclusive which is just personal taste. It doesnt cause me worry, its insured for full value, if anything I find comfort in knowing I have X number of dollars north of $100K that I can sell and continue on because its not an essential asset.