THE 430 Scuderia

good one, thanks!

 

Not sure.

Red.

Black or grey?

Yes.

Maybe. I'm not impressed w/Ferrari's past choices.

If that means cloth .... Yes.

Hey, let's call it what it is: Overpriced, Phony, Vinyl!

Alcantara .... mindboggling! The worst qualities of immitation leather and none of the qualities of finely made synthetics. Hard to clean, hard to maintain, wears horribly. And looks like what it is: A Cheap Immitation! A cheap immitation hyped into overpriced goods.

Naaah. Give me something like the BMW cloth/thin leather options. Although i'd prefer cloth/synthetics all the way around for light weight, comfort, easy care/clean and value.

Peace,

Richard.

 

Not in the USofA .... dealers have stated they will sell new Ferraris at "market value." This means that "premiums" will be added in by the dealer; lowering overall resale value and all that entails.

I'd agree w/u if the price was optioned and out the door USD. As it is .... the Scud is being overhyped and the fear is .... overpriced.

I don't much care for Lambos as a rule but you are kidding yourself if you don't think the Superleggera is a serious threat to the Scud!

I keep hearing this sort of thing. What technical innovations do you speak of?

Assuming you're right and I assume no such thing .... so what? I honestly don't get it. "Race on Sunday and sell on Monday?" Ended in the sixties/early seventies. Not to mention that "race tech" is waaay overhyped.

The LEAST IMPORTANT attribute for ANY such vehicle. In fact it DETRACTS from the vehicle's desirabillity!

A few examples in no particular order:
1) Higher production costs equal higher MSRPs reducing it's competitiveness w/similar vehicles.
2) Higher costs for parts and lessened parts availability.
3) Fewer techs who are familiar w/working on the vehicle.

<humor alert> Heck if you want a "rare" perhaps even "exotic" car why don't you let me sell ya an Edsel. Talk about racing history! Talk about heritage! Talk about innnovation! And so on and on and on. I'll even overhype and WAAAY overprice it for ya so that ya can brag to all the "descamisados" how expensive it is! <end humor alert>

Sorry to offend, but to those who equate "rarity" etc, w/desirbility I can only say you are kidding yourselves.

IOW: Gouging! <shrug>

Not a chance dude!!! The opposite is true in the US of A. Look to new car sales to tank if the dealer network insists on gouging new Ferrari buyers.

As for used "newer" car sales .... watch them sit on dealer lots as folks waltz over to the Lambo, Porsche, Aston, AMG, etc, etc, dealer where they can buy a perfect used car for far, far less than a similar Ferrari.

So far, what we have is an overhyped car. Ferrari are promising too much. And they cannot deliver on their promises! A typical example of a company on the edge. (Please Note: My opinion is an early one subject to change.)

Now if Ferrari, et al, put and end to all this "market price" nonsense and allow the market to determine actual value. If Ferrari, et al, return to providing at least one model we may be sure will be a *true* sportscar (e.g. fully adjustable suspension). If Ferrari, et al, fix the dealer probs (at least in the USofA) when it comes to service. If their cars finally come w/decent AC, sound systems, ergonomics, etc, etc .... and then keep their entry prices competitive (as they have so far but the writing's on the wall .... hope i'm wrong) .... then and only then will Ferrari *remain* the finest sportscar MFG in the Bloody World!!!

The writing is indeed on the wall .... from Lambo to Nissan to Porsche; amazing sports/gt cars are coming in '08.

Thx for reading this rant.

Peace,

Richard.

 

The manual lies like a rug peddler.

Although it is possible that a *stripped* and *completely* devoid of fluids F430 may weigh 3250lbs my F430F1 CCBs, etc, weighs closer to 3475 w/fluids and half a tank of gas. As weighed by Adrenaline Racing (lake oswego OR) on their calibrated scales.

OTOH, the Enzo weight has been verified and is not subject to much change due to it's lack of options.

Sorry, they don't. The weight savings for the USofA version will be closer to 150lbs due to DOT regs.

So a little extrapolation is in order: Given that we may expect a savings of 150lbs and that a CCB, F1, CFed to the gills F430 weighs around 3400lbs w/fluids we may expect the Scud to weigh in @3250lbs. While putting out only about 510 HP. And the chassis and suspension on the Enzo is far better.

Ok, let's put the BS to rest .... the Enzo still remains the faster sportscar. End of Story!

Thx to Federal regs. Sometimes we are sooo backasswards. <sigh>

Peace,

Richard.

 

Modena-Maranello, August 8
in test on street...............
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Gosh, yes. What a wonderful sportscar. But not only do I visit a wide variety of tracks (check out the tracks available to me on the west coast .... from willow springs to pacific raceways .... how cool is that?) but I am handicapped and *require* an ACT equipped vehicle.

Plus I like *some* comforts. E.g. Good stereo, great AC, etc.

Agreed!!! You also have HPDE insurance, lotsa track days, etc. Gotta luv Europeans!

Great .... for pool table smooth tracks. Let's see how it does at the 'Ring!

What's the prob w/adding a fully adjustable suspension option and making the Scud a TRUE track day weapon?!?!

Naaah, I love the .... concept. And have been waiting for it for quite a while now. While passing up on some GREAT cars. Plus i LOVE FERRARIS. It should be understandable that I feel very strongly about the Scud. I want it to be a huge success!

I've never driven an Enzo either. But the laws of physics apply to Enzos as well as Scuds. Ergo; we may look at the specs, extrapolate here and there and come to the conclusion that the Scud *MAY* be a Dud! And that would greatly disappoint me.

My local dealer quoted me a tentative price of $240-$250 USD "market." Looks like this price is being bandied about a bit. Along w/some $300k USD "market" guesses.

If you've read my posts herein or looked at my posting history you would have found that I LUST after a Scud and luvs Ferraris in general. [/QUOTE]

Ah, wake up call .... that's what these sites exist for .... chatting, speculating, ranting & raving. I think it's great fun! And one learns quite a bit over time as well. Meets a variety of folks .... Aw Heck ... if I need to explain it you wouldn't understand. <chuckle>

Yes, I tend to be overly verose. Mea Culpa .... Mea maxima culpa. ;-)

I might do that. Or sell it and buy a Superleggera. Or? <shrug>

Assuming they *can* pass me? <LOL & Big W>

Assuming they don't grind down also? Anyone looked at Fiorana lately? Smooth as a baby's butt. Let's see how the Scud doe at the 'Ring in the hands of an unbiased driver.

Ferrari do *not* provide us w/true weights. Plus USofA cars are always much heavier. In addition they are overhyping the car. A clue that all is not what it seems.

I expect a "road trim" weight for a US of A Scud closer to 3250lbs. As detailed in my previous post.

Peace,

Richard.

 

My 6-spd F430 weighed in at 3252 with half a tank of gas when I had it corner weighted.

Gary

 

The shield appears to be rectangular. Very odd!
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Exactly .... the weight varies by quite a bit. Applies to most cars.

Peace,

Ricahrd.

 

Dear Richard,


Your logic is very poor. If everybody will be thinking the way you do there will be no MARKET value of ENZO, for example, at all. Because standing from your criterias it is just another overpriced car. But it have one of the BIGGEST market values, bigger then ANY MODERN SUPERCAR. I must say 599 GTB is a little bit expensive, but when you start driving this beast, you will change your mind in some seconds. What race innovations I am thinking about? ALL that F1 technologies, for THEM we are in such DEEP love with Feraris. And Scuderia is offering NEW DIMENSION of F1 technologies in ROAD LEGAL car. Speaking about Ferari/Lambo competition, F 430 Spider price is well over then Gallardo Spyder, even LIST PRICE, not speaking about MARKET PRICE for US market or PREMIUMS in Europe, but who cares about it, I doubt you find here any F 430 Spider owner to whom price comprasion with G Syder was big topic. Anybody can show me Lambo which price is higher then LIST PRICE, in Germany I can get EVEN a D I S C O U N T below LIST PRICE for any Lambo and waitning term is only from 3 to 5 monthes long. Can you compare it to Ferrari? I have driven 360 CS and now I am on waitng list for 599 GTB and 430 Scuderia, just because I love Ferrari. LONG LIVE SCUDERIA.

 

AMEN

 

First, I fear that english may be a second language for you and that I might not be making myself clear. Please ask for clarifiction if needed. I shall do my best.

Now please allow me to point out that the Enzo is a perfect example of what I have opined:

It was sold at a reasonable price and the market allowed to determine actual resale value. In addition the Enzo was, and still is, the epitome of the Ferrari sportscar. As for the Hype that the Scud will be faster .... not a chance. But if by some physics repealing miracle it does turn out to be true .... it will again prove that my opinions are correct because Enzo resale prices would tank. E.g. I would consider an Enzo due to it's amazing performance .... but not if a Scud can be had for far, far less and it's also faster!

Sorry, I don't understand how the 599 fits within the context of our discussion. It's a *fine* GT car. Perhaps the best of it's kind! But certainly not a sportscar by any reasonable definition.

Please understand, I am NOT being obtuse. I truly don't get it. All marques offer the best tech they can use to make a price point. Racing history is irrelevant, IMHO. Few know or care about Ferrari's accomplishments.

Plus there's a huge difference between an F1 Ferrari and a Scuderia. Or look at other car makers and note that their tech is no different than Ferrari's .... in essence. Whether they race or not.

Sure .... I love to watch Ferraris race at any venue. In any form. FUN!!! But I don't kid myself that an F1 tranny, just as one example of *many* I could make, is truly better as designed for the street than, let's say (one of others I could name) a BMW SMG tranny. Sure the F1 shifts faster and smoother. A distinction w/o a difference.

What makes a Ferrari, any Ferrari, so desirable are qualities above and beyond the specs. Otherwise we'd all be driving Chevy Z06s, right?

OK, since you won't offer details I shall mention two hoping that'll help clarify my position:

1) Faster tranny? OK, but what's the diff in real world usage. Street or track it matters not. Simply hype. E.g. an SMGII tranny shifts fast enuff. BTW, shifting speed has nothing to do w/how a car performs on track once we've reached SMGII shift speeds.
2) Mannetino? Perhaps useful if the car is only to be driven on the street. Otherwise it's useless due to the lack of a fully adjustable suspension.

And those two points are probably at the heart of the matter. Some hype the faaast tranny and etc. But w/o fully adjustable suspension, or at least the option to install same, a Scuderia is not a *true* "track car for the street."

What are Ferrari thinking! Some of us appreciate Ferraris because they were the best in their field! But all this so called "innovation" seems to be ruining Ferrari's image.

E.g. My F430F1 CCB, only needs to shed some weight and come w/a fully adjustable suspension to be virtually untouchable at the tracks I frequent! That's why I awaited the Scud w/bated breath. Now it seems that the Scud is just a lighter weight, slightly more powerful example of the same car. I am very disappointed. But not entirely w/o hope. ;-)

I have no interest in convertibles. But I can say that basic F430 vs basic Gallardos are not very far apart in price. Resale is another matter. But exotic car resale is wholly dependant on image and MSRP.

Since I am considering a Superleggera as well as the Scuderia I will note that resale prices for Lambos are steadily climbing.

We do, we do, we all do. Except for the few, the proud, the rabid fans. <chuckle> They'll buy anything.

And it still remains unrefutted that they cannot support Ferrari alone! Ferrari need the "rank & file." Those of us who do *not* know so much about Ferrari's history, etc, but do LOVE the entire package and how it *feels* to drive a Ferrari.

Alienate us w/price gouging, overpromising and underdelivering, etc, and Ferrari will be in trouble once again.

So why do you suppose Ferrari are part of FIAT and Lambo are part of Audi? I believe it to be mostly due to the rabid fans convincing F/L that they could do no wrong and people would buy all they made no matter how many flaws were evident.

Or maybe Ferrari and Lamborghini at one point began to believe their own hype? <shrug>

Exactly. What's a few thousand. Now if we're talking a huge diff in pricing AND the Scud has indeed been overhyped .... I won't be the only one turning to other marques for my next sportscar.

I speak only of the USofA. I thought I had made that clear .... repeatedly.

In the USofA a Gallardo sells for MSRP or slightly above in some areas. And there isn't much waiting unless one wants something special.

What does that mean? To me it means that Lambos are built in enough numbers to barely supply demand and are considered a good value by most exotic car buyers.

Also, I doubt that many would order a Lambo instead of a Ferrari because they had to wait too long for the latter. ;-)

Of course. I've driven both! And better drivers than I drive them both. On track and on the street.

My friend, (i mean it .... friend) I am well known in the PNW and do not speak just to hear myself think.

The Gallardo is not much different as a driver than the F430. The main difference is public perception. And in the USofA more and more people apply to the Gallardo the qualities once reserved for Ferraris.

And please don't forget that this isn't only a contest between Lambo and Ferrari. High performance sports/GT cars with automated clutch transmissions are coming to the USofA from *many* marques.

Based on what you've written I think that you will be VERY happy with your choices and won't care if the Scuderia is not the finest sportscar available.

I concur: LONG LIVE SCUDERIA!

Peace,

Richard.

 

Well Richard, we are going to pay some 300.000- 330.000 euros, which is something like 520.000 USD with local taxes... And it's worth every penny of it : )

And that's a MSRP.

 

I'm sure you'll enjoy the Scud. No matter what I think in re value .... what's important is that *you* think it's worth it! Have fun.

Now for some clarification: MSRP refers to the manufacturer's (ie; Ferrari) suggested retail price. IMHO, if the MSRP on the Scuderia is as you state .... you can be sure you'll receive LOTS of attention for being the ONLY Scud owner in the world. ;-)

Peace,

Richard.

 

I strongly disagree with you. Enzo prices will not 'tank' ever. EVER.

Even if the Scud is wayyyy quicker around the track, Enzo owner's will not be selling to buy a Scud. They'll just have both.

 

When looking at "market prices" and adjusting for inflation, the price of the 288 GTO has tanked, the price of the F40 has tanked, the price of the F50 has tanked -- on what basis are you working on to claim that the Enzo will not follow suit ?

 

Well, if no one sells them .... ever .... then resale pricing is a moot issue. But it would indicate to *me* that prices have tanked and that is why *no one* is selling them.

Please keep in mind that a sound venture is one which generates cash flow. The more cash flowing, in the most directions, the more interest in the venture. Ergo; if Enzos (for example) are not changing hands it *should* mean that there is no consumer interest. W/o interest there is *NO* worth .... none at all.

But now we're drifting off topic. So back to it...

I know i'm not the only person here who tracks his cars and *strongly* appreciates what Ferrari are capable of. WTS: Doesn't anyone else deplore the lack of a fully adjustable suspension in a car sooo overhyped?

Or is it that most here (being primarily enthusiasts) are willing to accept less than the *best* Ferrari could do .... while increasing their (ie; Ferrari's) bottom line even further?

Your thoughts?

Peace,

Richard.

 

Finally got my videos from July up on youtube

430 Scuderia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MF5TheQMfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6pdsCSOR6A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJDZDTys2nw

F430
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAuBuYeLq-g

 

A thousand thanks Matthew! The first such vids i've seen. So cool! And the sound!!!

Speaking of sound .... is it the camera, or me, or were the Scuderia drivers using very light (ie; maintenance) throttle until well past the apex of the left hander? I know I would have done so .... nothing like spinning a Scud at launch. Ouch! ;-)

Peace,

Richard.

 

Couldn't have said it any better!!! AND, the Superleggera cannot even be compared with the Scuderia even though both were built for similar duties, the Scud is a SERIOUS performer all around, Superleggera is nice when I was in one, but still just a glorified Gallardo with CF and Alcantara!

GT3 and RS are Superleggera status IMO, F430 Scud is in the likes of the GT2 status!

 

Does anyone have new pix of the Scuderia interior other than the official photos?

Tarek what interior combenation did you order? I understand the Scuderia interior color choices and options are much more than the F430!

alcantara vs leather vs fabric . . .etc or a combination of all three?

 

thnx for the clips fwiw, i not convinced the scud sounds as good as cs

 

+1 / +1

 

I was at the launch last week and for what it's worth, the 430 Scuderia didn't quite do it for me. I was hoping for something as extreme, if not more extreme, than the Challenge Stradale. I don't feel that it is, especially with its quieter exhaust, the "Auto" button for the gearbox, unusual seat shape and all of the elasticated pockets etc. I fell that it's catering for those seeking more comfort - I might be wrong and I'll certainly reserve judgement until I get to try one out at a track. I'm sure that it's a fantastic car but is it enough for me to trade the Challenge Stradale...don't know, especially considering that its base price is 35% to 40% more expensive that the base price for the Challenge Stradale - and it'll have an extensive options list with stuff like the LED steering wheel etc.