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the 512bbi still gets looks too ;)

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by ross, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. Ludwig

    Ludwig Formula Junior

    Mar 27, 2006
    307
    Redmond WA
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    Ludwig Allegra
    LOL- the AC working.... Mine only worked well if ambient temp 70 or less.
    But with my rebuild/resto I am converting to a larger displacement YORK compressor- to keep the stock appearance.
    And yes, not the vehicle one wishes to drive in traffic. It does respond well to more aggressive driving on an open road. Then the lack of power assist shows its merit. (a guys car)....
     
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  3. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    showed the BBi at the Ferrari Festival last weekend, and then kept it with me for the week. managed to drive around quite a bit - this is the best part of the year in Houston. it was so much fun to drive this car- i had forgotten how visceral and raw it is, but how alive it feels. and all of the work done over the years is still good and the car is very strong, such a beast ! and now that the turn signal has been repaired and the big balloon tires are on, it feels great driving around - now i just run away from all the big trucks !
    most people dont know what they are looking at , but occasionally somebody does know and they are surprised to see it.
    i bet i am the only person driving a 512bbi around houston on a regular basis in about 30 years.
     
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  4. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,560
    I took the BBi on a nice drive w my son to a small grocery shop. When I was returning to the car, there were two guys from the store looking at it and asked if I could wait while they could got their friends. This repeated until I had a sizeable audience. My son asked me - "Who's left working in the store?" :)
     
  5. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    went for a drive today - trying to drive the old ones a lot before the temps rise.
    still a fun car - visceral, heavy steering, loud, and creaky, but a fun car.
    got passed by a f8 tributo spider, but i think i was having the better time.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2004
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    The temps I gues they get to us all.
    Bbs with that big winldsheilds rad heat through the bulkhead and coolant lines in the sills. They do get nice an toasty inside.
     
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  8. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    On the temp subject. The car copes with hot days just fine, it’s the driver and passenger doing the suns inside who suffer.

    inwoder how much of this is due to 30 year old Italian insulation foam turning to dust.
    Probably the insulation was not that great to start with and you can’t overcome the winds windshekid. Still
    I’ll be modern insulation when a car is being redone will
    Jar a world of difference. Plus a sander ac unit, modern rubber, great pistons with real compression ratio and reproduced cams.

    sich a car keeps the boxer intact but expands the bandwidth.
    To give perspective what we’re the competitors and other cars
    were like then, basicaly a ct was a little faster up to, had way better tires and felt like a kit car, the 928 was all of a refined piece and the. You had the am vantages and porche turbo. By today’s standards they’re we’re all slow. Compared to everything less on the roads then they are rocket ships.

    1980 trans am tubo was 0-60 in 9.8 secs and even the 928 was only in the low 7s
     
  9. Spitfire

    Spitfire Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    1,551
    What a great photo, I love this particular view. And it looks so good without boxer trim ...
     
  10. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    thanks. its a good perspective.
    did you notice that the curve of the front clip is echoed/matched by the curve of the roof line.
    and the front fender curve accent line follows right on into the rear quarter window reverse curve up to the roof.
    the only aspect of the bb profile that i have always had an issue with is the blunt rear end.
    i have always thought that the miura had the same general shape but dealt with the rear in a better way by tilting the upper edge back at a rakish angle.


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  11. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,560
    Not that we get too many opportunities to drive a couple of days + in a row, but have you noticed that if you do, it creaks less and runs better! It's like it protests sitting :rolleyes:
     
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  13. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    actually what i try to do is concentrate on each car for a week/10 days. so had the 512tr out for nearly 2 weeks, wherein i drove it as my nearly everything car for the weekend days, and then 1-2 times during tghe week to go to the office etc, then i swapped it out for the bbi and did more/less the same, and today i will swap out the bbi for something else and so on.
    so i do drive each one multiple times within a 7-10 day period each time. and as you say, they work better the more you use them !
     
  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    in gneral a BB shoudl have a fair bit of toe in at the rear to keep it stable. Depeding on tires and how worn the steering is the front can be no toe to very little toe in.
    I like to start at 1.5-2mm toe in each side at the rear and go for no to to maybe 1 mm toe in at the front. One simply needs to drive the car and go for the feel one likes in terms of the front. If the busings etc are new and theres no slop less toe make for a more reactive and lively front end, but at speed above 120 or so the car will need a form hand ont he wheel. Nevagitve camber also affects things. I like lots of negative camber for the rear, and in front maybe 1 degree or less.

    On a boxer with modern rubber you want to try lighten up the front end feel wit less toe and some negative camber and really plant the rear with toe in and mroe ngative camber.. Its ok if it understeers at the limit, given the heavy motor sitting up high understeer is desireable, cause snap oversteer is not pretty.

    I drove my BBi for mnay years on TRxs. As long as one kept the power down and mildly added power through a corner its was great cause there was balance between front and rear. But that meant really knowing the car and the corner and once comitted there was no out.. I can tell you from experience that if you reached the limit of the front and meerly feathered the power at the limit of the tires the slight weigh transfer from feathering would get a snap oversteer spin, or a slide which if caught would take 4 lanes to correct.

    A big part of this imo was the very flexy sidewlls of the trx. Towards the limit that sidewall was like a stretched rubber band, the tread probably wasnt even under the wheel, then when traction was lost the sidewall was like an elastic snapping the tread back under the wheel, so not only was tread traction lost with the road but the tread was now acclerating sideways fast as the sidewall snapped it back. Add to that a heavy rear and its all over. Basicaly you can imagine all that wieght at the rear planting the tire, then a mere feathering of the throttle and some weight transfers from the rear, traction is lost and now the sidewall is also acclerating the tread sideways while the weight of the rear is letting go in the opposite direction. The only way to save that is by catching it early so it does no swap ends and havinbg lots of space fr a lurid slide till momentum is lost and traction restored.

    Modern ribber changes that equation markedly, Firstly you can easily fit 275 rear, so theres simply a whole lot more grop. Modern sidewalls barely flex. At that poitn the rear of the car unless really really prvoked wont et go, an if it does is quite easy to correct and regain grip.

    The front of the car you just wnat to be really nice and pointy, so 225 thires work great.

    With modern rubber youll run out of spring and shock travel before youll run out of grip.
     
  15. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    Thanks. Are you using the BBi wheels with the new rubber? Also out of interest what tyres are you using?
     
  16. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    BBI wheels can only take metric ribber, so one is stuck with TRX's.
    I have Carobu wheels made for the car in 17 inches.
    But these days the Image wheels look dead on for stock and come in 17 inches.

    I have 275 I think 40 or 35rears, have to look, car is in winter hibernation.and front are 245 40s.
    Would keep the 275 rears they fit the rear bodywork perfectly and go for a 225 front. Theres more than enough grip in the 225 fronts (macalren F1 had 235s) and the narrower tires will wake up the front end more. I drove Newmans KoningBB with 215 fronts and thatw as really great, allt he heavyness gone, more like my lotus. To me the Koning 512 was a competly different car to a BBI, Light reactive wheel and a motor that really screams. One Day Ill do cans and pistons on my BBI to round it out. These are awesome cars only 7/8th devcloped by ferrari in athe malaise era. Quite easy to wake them up.

    Thats the other option, get BB wheels and put avons on, they have plenty of grip and you get the light steering with 215 15 fronts.
     
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  17. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,560

    I wonder if the relatively high recommended air pressure for the TRX tires on the BBi was intended to help this ?

    My observations are that the BBi drives great w the TRX (must be fresh rubber of course) on a windy road, but in general is not a track animal like its race prepped variants.
     
  18. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #65 boxerman, Mar 14, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
    I agree the high psi must have Been to try compensate for the sidewalk flex. It’s why Moderns improve ride (less psi) and grip.

    I guess it’s just a function of how hard you push them. I always thought the Trx was crap, brittle ride and still treacherous near the limit, even a fresh pair. In fairness I started riding my bbi at age 29 when it was 10 years old, so rode it as a fast car driven by youth as Enzo intended as opposed to an old colecatble.

    I have two Freinds on this site with bbi’s and there was a memorable drive last spring with the 3 of us. Covid gave us deserted roads On modern rubber we 3 went as quick and bbi”can go. Perhaps age gives maturity but the right day the right road a bbi will seduce with an absobtion of speed that a modern simply cannot.
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    In such conditions Age had slowed down neither car nor driver.
     
  19. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
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    Awesome!! :)

    Fast or not-so-fast, the song from that engine right behind you... Got a cigarette?

    btw- Great pic of the posed trio.
     
  20. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    go for a drive !!

    i have the bbi out for this weekend, and i just love it at this time of the year.
    drove it last night from my home in river oaks to a dinner party in sugarland....it just seemed so cool to be guiding this shark in the dark....then got onto the highway and stormed down there (and much faster home! less than 20 minutes to get back :) ).
    it still has it all and delivers the goods - you can cruise at 2x posted without much effort (although a lot of noise!).
    got to the dinner party where there were at least another 3 ferrari owners that i know, and guess what - not a single guy drove a ferrari there !
    these cars are made to be driven, not just shown statically at a car show !!

    the best way to show people these cars, AND enjoy them yourselves is to drive them and show them in motion!
     
  21. dinogt4guy

    dinogt4guy F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2004
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    Good grief! How in the hell can a 17 year old afford a BBI? !!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  22. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Nov 8, 2003
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    I was fortunate to have great parents. Still have the car 36+ years later.
     
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  23. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    Armen, you should post some of your pics of the dealership from back in the day. I love seeing all of those old pics.
     
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  24. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Which dealership? Newport Autosport or Rodeo Coach?
     
  25. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Newport Autosport was my fave but you posted some amazing pics from Rodeo Coach I believe that had some Lamborghinis lined up.
     
  26. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    Lovely photos throughout
    Stupid question: Do F40 or 288 wheels fit on a boxer?
     
  27. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Great Question. Im guessing 288 wheels fit. Waiting for anyone to confirm that.
     
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  28. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    my guess is no.
    the distance between the hub and the inner rim edge would exceed the available space on both front and back.
     

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