The ACO got it wrong again at Le Mans

It seems that, in spite or their promises, the ACO authorities at Le Mans haven't addressed the disparity between Petrol and Diesel cars performances and have left the later with a huge advantage compared to the former.

It looks like June will see yet another Diesel victory, come what may, in a race at the top where only the 3 factory AUDIs or the Peugeots can win - they are the only Diesel cars!

In its effort to attract car manufacturers, the ACO has taylored their rules to favour Diesel power, run by both the AUDI and the PEUGEOT factory.

There is hardly a remote chance for a Petrol car to win, even the 2 brand new factory Aston Martin, the Toyota-powered Lolas, the ORECA or the Pescarolo-Judds. They may as well run in another race!

After the test day last weekend, Henri Pescarolo came with this remark:

"Première constatation, les aménagements réglementaires pour diminuer le niveau des performances des prototypes et réajuster l’équivalence entre motorisations essence et diesel ont échoué. Quatre des sept LMP1 diesel sont passées sous la barre des 3’ 28‘‘, reléguant le premier concurrent “essence” dix secondes derrière eux, en huitième position."

The Diesel lobby likes things as they are, but it would be impossible to contemplate the future of endurance racing is the adoption of Diesel power was the only way to win!

 

And they wonder why Ferrari does not go there with full factory support....

 

Ferrari '333SP' FIAT DIESEL........... ;-)

 

Diesel's are very suited to endurance racing. There is more energy in a gallon of Diesel than in a gallon of gasoline. Diesel's produce more torque than gasoline engines and torque is what's needed to produce down force. Diesel's also get more miles per gallon of fuel which enables them to go further between pit stops. E 85 which some of the 458 GT2's are running is even less volumetrically efficient than gasoline.

 

The ACO can do what it likes to try and equalise the cars. but as with all forms of motorsport at the end of day money talks. It would not suprise me if Audi and Peugeot have catering budgets which are bigger than Aston's entire programme budget. Even if they elected to run their cars on horse manure I suspect one or the other would still win.

Only if a well funded factory team is prepared to take these two on (perhaps Toyota with a Hybrid) will we see any real competition for them.

 

In the end technology talks. Ferrari has a very well funded factory F1 effort but Red Bull has a better car.

 

I like RB

 

I do too. Their car is pretty trick.

 

When the latest regulations were announced by the ACO,
AMR's Dave Richards and Howard Chapel pronounced themselves
happy with the situation stating that the petrol teams would
have a greater chance of at least having a look-in.

What the ACO and P-1 petrol teams likely weren't counting
on was Audi and Peugeot responding by producing an all
new set of technologies such as the ultra light weight chassis
and much smaller engine displacement engines.

So, much in the mode of F-1 when new rules are introduced
to equalize the fields, the engineers of the top teams
respond with these incredible pieces of rolling art.

Let's see how it shakes out at the 24 Hours. As Audi
and Bentley have proven, strategy and slick pit work
may overcome the roadblocks set out by the organizers.

Not that this is all equitable or fair, the ACO has missed
the boat on a few fronts such as not addressing the issues
of GT-1 in a timely manner.

And JG touched on this in another thread as the ACO has
proven reluctant to create a "Supercar" open class where
P4/5 Competizione could go head to head with the likes
of Maserati MC-12, Zonda, Kounigsegg, etc.

The ACO's next major rules revision is due in 2013 (I believe)
and hopefully then some of these issues will be addressed.

BHW

 

It's not the Diesel efficiency that is in doubt, but rather the ACO equivalency rules that are suspect.

If only in capacity, the Diesel have been unfairly advantaged at Le Mans, for years.

It has come to the point that, (on paper at least, if not in practise) petrol cars have absolutely no chance of defeating Diesels at Le Mans, in what is supposed to be a level playing field - the LMP1 category.

That equivalency has to be tweaked to become effective after the initial trial is not unknown, but in this case, the ACO has point-blank resisted the move and endorsed its bias towards the Diesel.

 

It does look that way in LMP.

It will be interesting to see if a Diesel GT car shows up at some point.

 

Is it the WTCC that has the SEAT diesels run? From what I remember there was similar argument from other teams/manufacturers funning NA engines. The potential for diesel (it's much higher energy density) has always been there, now the technology has caught up and made them viable. I wonder what the emissions comparison would be between the LMP1 AM and the Audi/Pug diesels

 

And a couple of years ago Toyota had arguably the largest budget in F1, but that didn't help.

Honda had a fair budget, could not make a go of it, sold out, and basically a lower budget privateer team won the Constructor's Champion the following year with the same 'team', albeit with a different engine.

 

This is unfair I think, that was Honda's car, had they stayed in they would have it under their name more than likely I think. However, we digress

 

Too old.... you really need to go with something like this...

Low profile with AC

2008 FERRARI THOR RS95
http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1110&Manu=FERRARI

 

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140477014&postcount=3357

 

So you are going to stuff one of those in P4/5c.....cool! P4/5ctdi!

 

The ACO are a law unto themselves. I go to Le Mans every year - trhis years trip planning is almost complete, and the derv powered LMP1 cars are so efficient but so unbelievably boring. There is no real noise, no real event, they are just boring IMHO. The Astons and Vettes etc sound glorious and stir the soul but not the dervs.

 

Which brings me to ask you the question: Why do you keep going there?

I have given up going to Le Mans many years back, because of the manipulation in the regulations .
I have been spoiled and seen the Golden Age at Le Mans: the Ferrari-Ford duels, the Ferrari-Porsche battles, the Matra v. Ferrari era and the begining of Porsche domination.
Only the GTs could be of some interest now.

But I do not intend to go to Le Mans again. The track layout has changed and the circuit has been emasculated from its traditional features.

 

I agree the ACO are going to have to give the petrol LMP1 cars a few more breaks to enable them to fairly duke it out with the diesels. But one team that proved that it's possible to take the petrol fight to the diesels was Highcroft Racing with their performance at Sebring. That HPD/Wirth Research car was astounding straight out of the box! It will be interesting to see what that car can do at Le Sarthe.

 

This is the first time I've heard of someone being proud of how quiet their car is.

Sound may be unused energy, but quite honestly accounts for the soul of the car. I actually get goosebumps hearing legendary cars like the Porsche 917 and the old Ferrari P models roaring down the track. This car seems utterly soulless compared to these old racers -- what happened to the character?

I hope Porsche enters Le Mans again, and shows Audi how it's done.

 

I think this is unlikely for a while. IMHO .

First, Porsche and AUDI are part of the same Volkswagen stable, so won't certainly not be allowed to spend 2 sets of budget just fighting each other to entertain the public.

Second. Porsche is at the moment addressing its image, moving from a sportscar manufacturer to a mass market manufacturer, with 4 X 4, SUV and luxury touring cars (Cayenne, Cajun & Panamera) taking a larger percentage of its production.

Third. Porsche has lost its independence, and most of its management will come from other branches of the VW empire, not all of them die-hard racing enthusiast.

 

The only reason why I brought it up was there was a story about 3 months ago, which talked about Porsche and its ventures in Le Mans and F1:

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/38588.html

That came out when there were a lot of rumors about Porsche entering F1, but the CEO said a Le Mans entry was more likely.

I agree with you though, chances are slim that they would compete with sister company Audi. What will probably end up happening is more development of LMP2 prototypes, like the RS Spyder.

 

Because it is so much more than just a race. On the friday being able to get so close to the cars in the pits, something that simply is not achievable if you go to F1 (well, not on my salary!!). The banter for five days with my mates, staying so close to the track that when you grab forty winks you go to sleep with the sound of the Ferraris, Astons, Vettes etc shredding holes through your eardrums. Walking around to the dunlop bridge at 3am to take photos. Meeting like minded fools. I could go on.

 

Unfair? HOW? They could not do anything with what they had, it took a BETTER engine and arguably a better engineer to make it go fast.
IIRC Frank Williams took over MARCH and made it into arguably one of the very best chassis out there for over 20 years.

This is why I loved the F1 turbocar era. They were blindingly fast, AND you didn't go deaf standing next to them.
If I want to go deaf standing next to something, I will go to a loud Rock concert. Or an NHRA drag race.

Agreed 100%.

I still wish we could have a decent 24 Hour race here, at someplace you could actually CAMP inside of, in a TENT, of course Elkhart Lake comes to mind, so does Mid-Ohio, and even Brainerd MN.

'Camping' at Daytona or Indy just doesn't cut it.

I have friends that have $500,000+ motorhomes they claim to 'camp' in, I just let them think they are really 'camping'.