The all-new 296GTB

A few laps in performance mode


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The front of the Hurrucan and the other new Lambo's is ugly, the last pretty Lambo was the Gallardo (now more then 10 years ago), to drive them is also tiring, they are more showcars to make an impression but not to drive them long distances.
All the McLarens are ugly, only a special color can hide that, and they drive sterile, according the roadtests.
If you want a car with a lot of emotion, good roadhandling and steering Ferrari is the best choice and you can drive them also easy the whole day.

 

Well I own a ferrari, have driven many of them(old and new) on an off track have two lotus and an Alfa Gulia, plus bmws etc.

It all depends what one is lookign for, how and where one drives. I don't see a lotus as car lower down the rung if you cant afford a ferrari, in a number of ways its simply the ebst sprtscar you can buy (elige). The reality is most ferraris are overkill poseur pieces. Time was a ferrari was a better car than others out there, that you could drive to and hammer around the track, today a number can play that game.

On track, hard to say how a street ferrari performs over aday or two as they hardley ever go there, and those that do are carefully driven. Thats a function of the costs involved, owner profiles and the fact that there are simply as good or better street cars to drive on track. Not to say a ferrari pista wouldnt be grreat, but the cost relative performance value etc means they dont really track or track hard.

A lotus elise is a classic formula, no ferrari is going to run like an elise on backroads simply because the ferrari is too big and too heavy so theyre different animals. On a big open road, yeah the ferrari would blow the doors off a lotus, but where are these big open roads where you can really run a ferrari. To me performance driving today is backroads and the track. How fast can you really roll on the highway, maybe an occasional burst to 150?

In my personal experience there are very few road cars that can really run on track all day out the box, fewer that are stiff and strong enough not to wallow through the day as nearly all road cars do. A lotus elige is one, porche GT3's and Gt4s are two others, Im guessing apista could, but would not be better than a Gt3 in that enviroment. To that list I would add a 4c, it was remarkable on track, being one of the few cars stiff enough in frame and suspension not to fall apart past 9/10ths. I see a Mclaren 600lt also works but the consumable cost is obscene and relaibility is not there, at least we see Maclarens on track, ferraris seem to be too precious/collectable/value retention for much track work. There was also a Maclaren 570 GT4 that I drove, it clearly was a superweapon, hugely capable not least because its systems were doing much of the work for the driver, so you have to ask yourself whats the point.

I was at the track today with a team testing and sorting a factory BMW GT$ race car for some series. The pr driver was waxing lyrical about spec miata, cause if youre really gonna drive it does a lot well. A 4c is liek aspoec miata only mid engined and more power. I know plently of uber wealthy who have most every car who choose to race spec maiata for a reason.
Point is each car has a purpose, sadly most new ferrais is to pose, affrim wealth/sucess and provide a quick thrill, the product priorities reflect that.. Still awesome cars though one must put them in context.

I would say if youre really into driving a 4c is likely to be more of an imersive experience than a modern ferrari and on any sort of twisty road as fast as anythign else maybe quicker cause its smaller. So Iguess it all dpeds on where the driver is coming from.

maclarens theyre known as not super rleiable, great steering, but laggy mtoors that sound like crap. Styling wise, well where ferrari sometimes still akes automotive art, maclarens they could do better.

 

You and I agree on many things, the stick is not one of them. Cars are either transport or a viceral experince. EPS, paddles etc all dilute the experince on road. Yeah paddles are faster on track at 10/10ths, how is this relevant to a road car. Porche has prven that for a sportscar a NA motor and stick is a winnign combo, I think 70% of 991 Gt3s were ordered this way. Viceral cars are why you own a 4c.

yes ferrari is all about tech, and in less than a decade it will be all electric whose "paper" peformance will shade any ice car, for 3 laps. No reason ferrari shoudl not offer a classic line. Look at mtorcycles evntulay sportsbikes became so capable that for road theywere irrlevant, the naked bikes became the big slellers to this day. In the same way ferrari coudl offer its techno cars and somehtign with god forbd a stick. Its alsoa piuty the dash on 296 is all dgital. As we see with pagani the cotrols and dials can and should be like jewlery, thats part of what seperates an exotic and a ferrari for a porche, the details. the newer ferraris look great, but the little details seem to be getting lost.

True its not coming back, bu the drivers ferrari clearly has a mrket. imagine that 296 loosing 200+lbs of batteries and elctric mtor, you know 600 hp is plenty, and maybe a version with a stick, after all tubo cars rev low enough and are tw rch enough to work with a stick. The ice will be gone soon, why remove the things that make an ice so viceral.

Ferrari thought they wouyld struggle to sell 200 288s. they sold what 15000 even more raw f40's. The formula has market and these would be the last really collctable ferraris.

296 is pretty it has classical lines, Im sure its paper spec will be amazing, but a dirvers car?

 

Easy the whole day is not a criteria for me, its drawback. i like edgy fast cars, the type that really comunicate with you. If i want to go long distnce in a speed limited country or drive in traffic a sportscar is not the choice. On most roads a modern sedan like a gulia is already more than quick and sharp enough.

In a sportscar I look for sense of ocasion, all sorts of details to delight the eye, aural entertainment and criticaly controlls and response that make the car feel as if its hardwired to your brain, and extension of your being. Ferraris certainly have asens eof ocasion, they have been losing details to delight the eye, are becoming auraly muted. Roadholdign ferrari has it. arguably a maclaren 600lt had the best steerign of its group. Style wse ferrai created a masterpiece with the 458, lost it with the 488 and reddeemed witht he pista and f8. I like classical forms which ferrari sometimes does great.

The Hurrucane is by all acounts simply more fun to drive on road than the notionaly faster f8, it also sounds way better. Styling its a wedgy car done right its also a very well balanced design. Maybe not everyones taste but defintely automotive art. The ferrari is probably a better car by many measures but the lambo, its just has something that ferrari has lost in becoming ever more useable, raw edge passion.

To me the gallardo looked like an audi I woudl never have called it pretty and it was never a great car.. A countach wasnt pretty like daytona or boxer, but it was a stunming viceral design, true automotive art, as was the stratos. The hurrucane does that for me now, albeit in a more muted practical form, the 296 from photos seems to bring back beauty and elegance ferrari had in the 246 daytona 308 BB era.

If I were buying one to keep, not sure one would prefer still owning a 296 in 2040 over a 2wd hurrucane evo. Now trow a pista into the mix and its ferrai all the way.

Sadly if the press is to believed by 2035 or 2040 there will be no ice powered cars allowed to be sold new. What is available now, including the 296 may be the last of their kind.

Were soon going to look back on v8 dodge challengers, F8s, hurrucanes, c8 z06 vettes, Porche Gt3's and Gt4s as the last and best of a breed, an experince one will not be able to repeat. they are one and all regardless of badge collectable and worth buying and keeping because of what they are, as is a mustang Gt and lotus elise if you can get a new one before prduction in the Uk ends..

 

A driver’s car? For today’s driver, yes. The torch is being passed. The ship has sailed for 95% of today’s world.

A stick is as useless on these high tech cars as an ashtray on a motorcycle.

Buy a classic and enjoy it. A bug eye sprite may be more fun to drive than a 296– but that’s the point. You can still enjoy yesterday’s world in today’s if you want to. But both worlds are here to stay. That’s just fact.

 

That’s why I am keeping my FGT…..In case in the future I move with the times.

 

Lots of things in todays world have retro hues, including muisic, both in form and function. The ship has sailed for 95% of todays world, yet in the sportscar arena not. Thats why we see new build SWB's and SWB interpretaion, stick GT3s and retro naked bikes. What otdays worlkd offers is betetr braking handling and power with relaibility, it does not have to negate the other virtues. In time when all new ferraris are electric they will offer classic lines, and probbaly track only classics. Its good buisness.

Yes I and others would love a smallish tastefully designed car like a 308, but with modern build, relaibility power and handling. A reliable 308 styled 355. If ferrari does no pull their ego out their ass someone else will. Hell Maclaren arose because ferrari managed to piss off so many buyers.
Instead of serving he customers who really appreciaoffering a wider customer base exclusive elemental sportscars, were getting another suv, cmon man thats doing ***** for the brand but it may sell, as woudl a classic line which would enhance the brand.

The reason we have no elemental ferraris to go with the rest, the reason maclaren could arise, the reason why a hurricane is a real competitor and the reason why Ferrari will deliver a bloat barge suv instread is because they got spoiled and lazy.

 

I could question many things you've said here and, would agree with some of your points, but my point all along was that Mayor spouts off as if he is the Guru Oracle for Ferrari, makes disparaging remarks against Mclaren and anything else he feels threatened by when he hasn't even owned least of all driven the cars. Text book Ferrari fanboy behavior.

So far as your Miata story goes the only reason why guys track these is because they are inexpensive to run and trash vs running costs and/or wearing out an expensive high end exotic like a Ferrari etc - which is fair enough and completely understandable. You gotta pay to play.

And no I wouldn't buy any story of an Alfa 4c being reliable on a racetrack without heavy modification using non factory parts. And so far as a 4c being competitive or more satisfying to drive you are on your own there. Some don't need to be drowned in antiquated crudity to say that's more fun than something else far superior in engineering. Antiquated crudity just wears you out faster so it may work for the driver who only has the concentration span to do a few laps. I happen to love my driving too but see no sense in punishing myself needlessly in some antiquated crude device which looks like a toy car and, which is so slow it would be in the way of most cars on the circuit. Some may also say how driving a model T Ford is even more awesome to drive than that Lotus "Elise" you speak so highly of - which I've driven Btw - , basing their entire argument upon all the crudities as being some form of self proclaimed driving nirvana. Nope, some things you say here I do not buy one bit but by all means please feel free to savor them if that what floats your boat. I've moved on from driving antiquated jalopies and not for the sake of snobbery or posing either btw..

Anyway I'm straying off the beaten path here - again my point being Mayor has no clue whatsoever on the very cars he trashes and isn't likely to any time soon i suspect. If he loves his Miato/4c whatever then fine let him knock himself out on that, but refrain from making out he is some guru spouting off nonsense about cars he has not even a shred of qualification to comment on. Now that is A fact.

 

Im not going into a debate between you and mayor.
Read your post. If you think thats why people are into miata, and its true maybe for 50%s budget is a barrier, then youre missing something so large that the line is, if I had to explain...and you cant make the blind man see.

Lets just say that we all may get something different out of cars. I'm not discrimnatory and like all enthusiasts. I like the kit car guy who put his heart into his vehicle, dream. Admire the true artist who an make a rod, with perfect balance of form that can steer and brake too. I like the kid who has an old honda they're working into something. I love the track rats who camp in the parking lot at the glen, and the wealthier who still camp in their semi with their realk GT3 race car, or the 25 yo kid whos making it in life and tracking his c5 vette, girlfreind in tow.

You know the guy building a winning NB miata in his garage, jay leno and Miles collier all have the same thing, real enthisiasts one and all, a lifes passion..

Hell I even accept car snobs who think/pretend they're enthusiasts cause they can afford an expensive and excellent car.
You know why cause were all into it.

But if you want to touch the true art of driving, that as any racer will tell you is to make a slow well handlign car go fast. Anyone can acclerate an overpowered car out a bend with electronics, and overbrake into one. But learn to ride that limit, having to do so without crutches, thats driving art, and then going fast in a faster car becomes easy to understand. Without that, power and brakes are just crutches, and also barriers to true enlightenment, and thats why the pros still race miatas for hobby in tier spare time and why a NA lotus elise will smoke a ferrai on backroad.

Back to the op, yeah we can critique the 296 here and there. Its unquestionably a cool car, one of the few moderns that makes me feel like I really might like to own one, thats a rare thing at my jaded age.

 

I'm not going to get into a raging debate either. What I said was based upon what I've seen with my own eyes and personally experienced. Mayor - i'm not going to bother waste any time there unless he continues spouting his ridiculous fanboy nonsense in future posts - then he will get reeled in and rightfully so!!

Insofar as the elise coming out on top on a mountain backroad I haven't seen that happening. Last run I did up the mountains with a exige v6 in our group - and he's a bloody good driver too - he was left like a slaughtered pig some 10 minutes back on an hour and a half full on run so I cant see how a less powered slower elise is going to wind up any different, least ahead of anyone. Mind you most of us were in current model GT Porsches - an Elise would have zero hope coming out ahead in our small group and I don't care who's driving it. It's as good as toast. An Afla 4c would be so far back it would get lost. And all this talk about real enthusiasts owning Miata's - LOL.

 

Interesting, when I was in Oz it semed everyone was afraid of going 5knh over the speed limit, or touchign the yellow line when parking. Exvcet i adleaide and thats the pone place where there was somethignn approcahing a mountain.So its good to hear that somewhere in oz the spirit still lives. Im a big porche fan, in many ways they do it so right, althogh compared to a lotus a porche feels liek a boat.,.

I have an exige v6 and on a big track its a quick around as an 992 gt rs quick, the porche being quicker down the straights and slower in the corners, a Gt2 Rs is a different animal. of course both those get blown away by a fully worked boxter cause the best times are through corners, then theres a radical, different orbit.
So theres always a faster car on track.

the exige suffers for being without an intercooler and winds back tmiming radicaly after 3 laps, youre goign from 350 hp to 280., On mine to work past that we run a full motec system, also ohlins slicks grat rotors, ceramic track pads . In that sense its a car that can be a "real" track car and still somewhet economic and reliable to run, seat time is everyhting.. Interestingly the best upgrade for the exige v6 is from harrop and australian company, a bigger intercooled supercharger, but at that pout might as well do the rest of the motor, and 600hp in a 2400lbs car etc.

point is its horses for courses.

But good to hear somewhere in Oz people still drive with a capital D, we thought you'd all become panzies.

 

Haven't seen any lotus ever get close to the circuit times of a properly driven Gt2rs nor 3rs for that matter. If a v6 lotus Exige wins out over a Gt2rs/3rs then it's a driver issue. Btw the guy rolling with us on the run I mentioned had a supercharged v6 exige and it was no match for the RS Porsche boats you refer to. I would say a regular non GT/RS Porsche may feel like a boat after stepping out of an Exige but a GT/rs no. Stepping out of a Gt3rs into an Exige is an exercise in unnecessary pain for no real gain other than to remind oneself of just how much better the RS is to drive and, is as a car overall. How do I know this? Because I drove that particular supercharged exige and stepped back into an RS after and frankly I couldn't wait to get back in.

As an FYI Adelaide or SA doesn't have the volume of mountain terrain as the eastern states. I don't live in SA nor drive on main rds or widely used country or mountain type rds. That's a waste of time which could prove costly. I happen to know a couple of guys that live in SA though and they know where to go in their parts. As is the case anywhere, local knowledge is required

 

I never said the exige could tackle a Gt2rs, I said it couldnt. In a straight line the Gt3 is faster, though the bends slower. On track the exige v6 has the measure of the Gt3 amd Im talking about abig track like the glenn. The Exige simple goes through the fast bits(corners) so much faster. On the open road where its all about hp and one uses maybe 3/4 of cornerign ability then yes the Gt3 will eb faster. On a tight mountain road what I term backroads where cornerign speed dont exceed 160kmh the elise is simply hard to beat, there is not enough straightaway for a Gt3 to use its power advantge and its too big an heavy to pivot like the lotus. On the nurberign sure a Gt3 will smoke a lotus.

As I said before its all a function of intended use and available roads. here in NW Ct the roads are sublime country back roads

The porche guys I know switched to lotus for track. They way prefered the far more elemental and connected feel on track a smaller lighter car conveys, laptimes were the same or better and running costs fractional, pads last days not hours and rotors whole seasons not days. Same light lower power formula applied by Dallrara with their car and thats $250k base. In the end a porche is fundementaly a 800+lbs heavier road car, thats worked to run great on track, and a lotus more like a small stiff light track car that is made to work on road. Different animals. Im sure on more open roads on a hot day/long run the porche feels better, theres many days I drive my Gulia for its comfort and ease of use, not to mention pace.

Now take a cayman GT4 clubsport(the factory race car) and its going to smoke even a GT2Rs road car on track. Slicks, brakes, springs shocks aero, less weight etc will do that even if its down 300hp. The lotus is turn key and fits somewhere below a Gt2rs and above a Gt3 on track, with a far lower running cost. tight track, even the Gt2 will struggle. But yeah its easier to be fast in the modern porche, you really have to work your ass off in the lotus.

For many who occasionaly track, the Gt3 is the weapon of choice for good reason. It works just fine is well sorted for moderate track use and comfortable on road, the best of many workds, but consumable cost is high for sustained running running on track, so many who have agt3 road car have something more suitable and focussed for track..

I was at lime rock yesterday, freinds were testing a BMW M4 Gt3spec race car. That 500 hp beast will full on aero etc is fast for sure, They were also going through slicks by the hour and pads 2x per day, with a whole pit crew to keep it all in fine fettle. Yeah it runs 3 secs per lap fatser than the lotus, but its a $20k per day adventure for the Gt3 racer..

The lotus uses 1 set of slicks over 2-3 days not 2 hrs, pads last 5 days and all it needs is fluids. same track the exige is faster than a street Gt3, the exige can run all day for $800 in consumables including gas and a rserve for heavier items. Do the same thing with a Gt3 and youre talking easily 2k-2.5k per day, and thats without a reserve for rotors etc. Multiply those numbers by say 15-20 track days.

Heres some relevant data. The 997 RS 4.0 is to me the seminal road porche of the past few decades, in terms of feel response, sound. superlative steering, everything. When they were new one was runnign at the Glenn, he was doing 2.14 laptimes, the na elise was doing 2.19 laptimes. The exige same track does 2.07, and a 488 challenge car can break 2 mins while a regular 488 is over 2.10. Years ago iwas at an F1 race, guests of ferrari so we go to ask al sorts of dumb questions to Dr Todt who was then technical director. So for qualifying they used much more win/downforce because that made for the quickest laptimes by far, even though speed down the straigts was slower. For the race they used less wing because passing on corners at that track was impossible and speed down the straights was therefore critical. even though laptimes were slower. makes sense and explains why a 195 hp lotus on a tight mountain road, or a far more powerful exige v6 on track can beat a faster Gt3. Same applies to a 4c. Its also why pros hone their skills in a miata, becaiuse ina miata you cannot add speed back, so the key is not losing speed through corners, to be fast in a miate you have to get that nth degree right. Addiing power and speed down a straight in high hp car is just the fatser bit between the corners, anyone can do that.

As I said it depends on roads and use. When I lived in south africa with big open roads a priche urbo was th weapon of choice cause you could really roll, but aporche turbo while notionaly fatser than a Gt3 is functionaly way slower on track past the first 2 laps. Drivers as you know are the biggest differentiator, although that is somewhat narowed by all the driver aid systems now avialable, that of course raises the question is it me or the car. I'm not racing competitively so its all about bettering myself and being better/faster than freinds.

Where we live now in the USA for hard charging its either backroad driving or the track. Im trying to think where a 296 would be the weapon of choice in either of those envioments, cool car as it is. The ferrari if it looks and sounds great, if it has a feel thats more than others offer and is fun at all speeds will be great for what its is, a dramatic exotic. Currently imo that mantle belongs to the Hurrucan evo 2wd, but if youre drivign your road car in all enviroments and to the track for trackday, its hard to beat a Gt3.

The 4c its diminutive size ability to pivot, its stiffness etc, as an out the box car may notionaly lap slower than a Gt3, but it has virtues a GT3 does not on track, and a Gt3 is pretty excellent. As others have said if you limit yourself to cars above a certain price range youll be missing much in terms of the joy and experience of driving. Two cars I woudl love to own but we can get in the USA are the new alpine and yarisGr, for where I live those two would be way more fun and faster on road than a Gt3. Theres a reason Gordon Murray drives an alpine and its not because he cant afford to drive his F1 or newer T50, both of which are top of the heap cars in price and execution.

Horses for courses.

 

Yes local knowledge is key. When you get a chance pls take some pics of those great roads, its always good to visualizel.
I loved the roads in NZ, but man over 160kmh you might as well have comited murder. I guess if one lived there one would know where to go and not, plus you could always check out a road first. I guess oz where you are is similar.

 

IMO, this is the current wave. Chevy is making a hybrid C8 then shortly after a completely electric C8. They put their upgraded gas C8 on the back burner for now.

Maserati is making the MC20 as a pure gas Turbo then a full electric 4WD MC20. No Hybrid step.

Mustang is already moving in that direction. Porsche as well.

So I believe you will see a lot of pure electric sports cars in the next 5 years and actually, fewer hybrids. Just gas and electric until all gas cars are outlawed or taxed out of existence.

 

I wonder if I will be able to get "Historic" exemption plates for my ICE cars?

 

Where is the “love” button? Couldn’t agree more! We all love manual, lightweight, NA engines but the world is evolving. May the classic market ever stay strong as the world and technology continue to evolve.

 

Arguably one of the greatest cars ever designed, certainly modern, and with a 6 speed.

The experience of connecting a car to a driver through shifting can not be overstated

A shifter makes any car a better drive imo

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclaren/720s/2020/2021-gordon-murray-automotive-first-look-review-pictures/&ved=2ahUKEwjIkN25hszxAhVGZc0KHWlWA0EQo7QBegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw3HnqPGFpbmUodndThKeppA

 

It’s a damn shame they won’t (can’t?) build 5,000 of them at a $750,000 price point.

 

Truer words have not been spoken!

 

In 10-15 years depending on the country/continent new ICE cars will be illegal to sell.So its going all electric.

Maybe that wont quite pan out as the infrasturture to support so many elctrics does not exist.

As for Ferrai well see the talking heads like this as regards the Me segment.
512/Tr last enzo ferrai
355 last real ferrai.
The camne paddles and many decired the loss of a stick, but other started the mantra that ferrai was all about latest greratest tech and its paddles.
458 cause last NA ferrari.
F8 will be last pure Ice ferrari.but its turboed and eps.
296 and evolutions prob last primarily ice ferrai where the ice motor is a central feature.
In each iteration somethingn got lost.
The trend as has been towards easier to live with, faster on paper, more Tq laden ferraris. Paddles and eps took away much of the experience, but people loved the tech because ferrari stopped long ago about being primarily drivers cars, selling tech laden ease of sue with steller paper metrics.

An Electric ferrari will be even less hassle easier to use still, and its paper numbers on road or for a few laps will shade any current Ice ferrari. The faithful will once gain declare the world has moved on, a ferrari is all about latest greatest tech. True some massaged engine sound will be lost, but much will be gained.

The fact is that weight/endurance aside, electrics are an infintely superior motive force. Their response is imediate and they are accurate in a way that no ice can approach. The drawbacks of weight and lack of endurance at full tilt in10 years will be somewhat improved, but also irrelevant to 99.6% of ferrari buyers who will find the on road paper performance of their elctric ferrari so superior that ICE will be like comparing a steam train to a Airbus. Newer ferraris dont really get tracked in any numbers anyway, so weight and track endurance are not going to be major factors. With elctrics points of differentiation between marques will boil down to styling, quality and dynamics.

The 488 to drive already mimicked a future electric in may ways. Iow down torquey, eps paddles etc.

Maybe the chasm between an electric and the classic na stick ferrari experince will be such that Ferrari will produce a classic line for track only, or for where allowed on road.

One can also see a buisness for companies like singer redoing 308s and the like into modernish handling 500hp renewed old cars, ferrai might even get into that itself.

I hope so, because there are many of us who want modern levels of power and reliability, ac that works etc in a new build turnkey, but with all the classic attributes that made ferrari and others stand out. This is something quite different to buying an old used classic as some suggest. Its as different as buying an old oil leaky low power carbed Triumph bonnevile with crap brakes and suspension or a new Triumph bonneville with great suspension/brakes and a classic inspired powerplant that is relaible plenty powerful starts with the push of a button every time and looks every bit as nice as the original. Today Triumph makes both modern retro Bonnevilles and totaly modern sportbikes, but look where the bulk of their sales are, bonnie all the way.