And Jim provided both....speed and delivery. Many said he looked slow until they checked their watches. So much talk about how "sensational" Gilles looked.....I look at the stats above and wonder....did Gilles just look fast? His poles and fastest laps show otherwise. And the goods delivery? Pfffftttt......'already covered that...... Maybe he would have been more suited for the Joie Chitwood Thrill Show. Image Unavailable, Please Login http://www.roadkill.com/classics-watch-joie-chitwood-thrill-show-heyday/ ('Just kidding..... Image Unavailable, Please Login ) 'Couldn't stand Ayrton's personality (tho' I never met him) but I'd have put him in my seat over Gilles any day of the week (or month or year....Jim not being available, that is.....) if the choice was mine. All said, I don't have any of that blind disdain for Gilles that many have for anyone NOT their fav. I just look at the facts that determine the "best" or not.
'Always (almost) respect another's opinion and reasons. What is "total nonsense" about what's been written about Clark or Villeneuve? Jim brought home the bacon with only 3 wrecks in his F1 carreer; and Gilles brought back broken (12 wrecks) cars and poor results.
(A) & (C)'Not edumucating me. I was living, eating, breathing racing at the unfortunate time for Jim and Gilles. Both very sad days. (B) Great. Very impressive. He had sheet results, for all that wonderment. (C) Uuuuuhhhhh.....yes I do.
I refer you to the results in post #48. They let me know enough. They also let you know that Jim "tried", and succeeded (unlike Gilles), quite enough.
Everyone has there favorite! Different eras, different cars, different races! Very hard to compare drivers.
(A) Absolutely. 'Has nothing to do with "best of all time" however. (B) And, back to alltime best, how could it be when Gilles was beaten by his peers and his own teammates. (C) 'Not hard at all when they have a similar number of races (72 to 67) yet such vastly disparative result records. (post #48) The thread is for "The best driver of all time", not "who's your favourite driver of all time". Of course, it has absolutely nothing to do with the driver with lower number of good stats drives for the same persons favourite team. I'm supposed to believe that??? It would matter less about who is one's favourite driver of all time; that's subjective, of course. But, when it comes to suggesting they're the "BEST DRIVER OF ALL TIME" when they have nothing to show for their career to speak of.....git serious!!! There are many, many drivers that accrued better results than Gilles. It is not, like I kiddingly suggested, a thrill show. This is auto racing. These are race drivers. They're supposed to bring home wins and as many points as they can through the races for the drivers championship (and Constructors, but we're talking 'best drivers of all time). In this case 25 to 6, and two to none in this comparison (let alone the other numbers; see post #48). Again, understood that Gilles is some's "favourite". Surprise! I liked him too; 'quite entertaining. 'Just wasn't impressed as a race driver as he didn't "deliver" the goods. No mas
Gilles could have easily beat Jody for the 79 championship. It's called team orders. Which Didier refused to follow at San Marino in 82. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Coulda, shoulda, woulda. I understand he's your Gilles the Ferrari driving "McDreamy". I've been comparing a potential "Best driver of all time" to one that's not even in the hunt. Jim...........................................Gilles 2 championships.......................0 championships 72 Grands Prix...........................67 Grands Prix 25 wins (34.72 %)......................6 wins (8.96 %) 33 pole positions (45.83 %).......2 pole positions (2.99 %) 28 fastest laps (38.89 %)...........8 fastest laps (11.94 %) 32 podiums (44.44 %)...............13 podiums (19.40 %) 3.81 pts / GP..............................1.60 pts / GP 30.44 pts / season.....................17.83 pts / season Edit: I just noticed something I hadn't before. Clark has 19 more podiums (32) than Villeneuve (13).......exactly how many more wins he has over him too. What a coincidence......
In my opinion, which I know will generate a lot of grief in my direction, is that any driver getting himself killed in motor racing cannot end up being "the best of all time."
You know what Mark Twain said about statistics right ? Let me try to explain - in F1, the cars are different. Some cars are a lot faster than others. 79 was Gilles first full year in F1. He would have won the championship if not for team orders. In 80 and 81 the Ferrari was not competitive. Because of the car, not the drivers. 82 would likely have been a championship victory for Gilles, if not for the slower March getting in the way, and causing the accident. He only had 3 full seasons in F1. Compare that to Schumachers 19 seasons. I could credit Clark's success to the Lotus cars, and the motors they used.
A number of truly great drivers have been killed on the track. Motor racing is not a sport for the faint of heart.
Thtop it you meany. I'll scrath your eyeth out..... Oh, a daithy chain, not a thircle......never mind...... I apologithe. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Cabin fever....'gettin' to me....
Sure you could. Me too. The cars helped, fer sure. But that's true for everybody. Speaking of his engines, the Climax was nothing to write home about, as, like the CosWorth, they were a staple used by many at the time. And the Colotti boxes....none to strong; more proof of Jim's sympathy toward his cars yet still very, very quick. I read a quote from Jim's mechanic (dang can't think of his name) that they'd pull his and Graham's boxes apart and Jim's was always like new....Hill's was always near, if not, broken' (and Hill wasn't too shabby himself 'til he broke his legs at the Glen, '69). The '66 season with the overly complicated BRM H-16 was no help...his (and it's) only win was the Glen. The '49 didn't show up until Zandvoort and though Jim won, it wasn't fully sorted 'til later in the season. Of course we Know Jim won Kyalami, '68 and would have tore the field up (like he did in in '63 and 65) the rest of the year (and who knows how many more) 'cept for that fateful, drizzly day in a forest in Germany instead of the BOAC 500, as originally scheduled......
Looking for Jim's mechanics name, I came across a good read.... https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/august-2015/86/lunch-team-lotus-mechanics Mssr William, you might enjoyit.....an excerpt there from... "But the thing about Jimmy, one of the ways he was so much better than everybody else, is that if there was a problem with the car he just drove round it. Like in the 1963 French Grand Prix at Reims: he got a bad misfire, the engine was at least 1500rpm down, but he managed somehow to stay in front. Then it started to rain, and as the track got slippery he even extended his lead, and he won.” Bob: “Another one was the 1965 British Grand Prix. He was in the lead, Hill’s BRM was second, and suddenly Jimmy was coming through Woodcote every lap with his engine apparently dead. Then on the straight the engine would cut in, sounding fine and healthy. We couldn’t understand what was going on. Because of this Hill was catching him, but Jimmy managed to stay ahead and won by 3.2sec. Afterwards he told us that on long fast right-handers, like Woodcote, the oil pressure needle was sagging down to zero. He didn’t want to run the bearings, so on those corners he was dipping the clutch and coasting round. And like that he got to the flag.” Cedric has another story that underlines Clark’s natural talent. “At the 1964 French Grand Prix at Rouen there was a support race for historic cars, and Patrick Lindsay won it from pole with his ERA, Remus. He’d raced it for years, it was totally familiar to him, and he was very quick in it. Jimmy asked Patrick if he could try it. Rouen was a really challenging road circuit, particularly those fast downhill sweeps, and Jimmy had never driven anything like that. It was totally alien to his experience, sticking up in the cockpit with that big steering wheel and rock-hard suspension. He only did four laps – but at once he got several seconds under Lindsay’s pole time. Afterwards I asked him what it was like: ‘It handles quite well, actually. But it’s a bit bumpy.’ Image Unavailable, Please Login Dance takes notes as John Whitmore and Jack Sears discuss matters cortina at Oulton Park, while Colin Chapman dreams up the next great idea “And remember Spa in 1963? He had a lead of more than two minutes at two-thirds distance, and then the rain came and it really bucketed down. He won by nearly five minutes. "
