The biggest problem with banks | FerrariChat

The biggest problem with banks

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by vhayne, Jan 27, 2011.

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  1. vhayne

    vhayne Rookie

    Jan 24, 2011
    8
    High Point, NC
    Is that they are illogical.

    Before reading this, please understand that I'm not ranting. I decided to type this here, because most of you are intelligent individuals, and might be able to help me understand why I'm apparently wrong if my vision of how this all works.

    I'm "trying" to purchase a Ferrari (F430 Scuderia - see my thread in the 430 section), and it's been nearly a week with no answer yet from the bank. Still waiting.

    What's ridiculous about the situation is that it seems like a no-brainer. I can afford the vehicle with absolutely no problem. In fact, the only reason I'm trying the credit route is impatience. My original plan was to simply save up for another month or 2 and pay in cash.

    The problem is that my credit sucks. I didn't used to make this much money. New business took off at the end of '09 and has been growing exponentially since, with no sign of slowing down (true blessing).

    As for the "logic" situation, it just doesn't make any since what the problem might be. When you put 55% down on a vehicle of this magnitude (that's alot of money), it alleviates any and all risk. If some freak thing was to happen to my company, and I was unable to afford the payments (I would probably only pay for a year before paying it off completely anyway just to build a relationship with the lender), then the vehicle could simply be repossessed, and re-sold near the original price.

    The bank would KEEP the 55%, resell the vehicle (perhaps in full) which would nullify their debt, and finally STILL be allowed to pursue me for the remaining balance.

    So let's do the math. For example, if the vehicle cost 100k, but was marked up 10k for profit, then the seller would make 10k from an outright sale. Now let's say a person walks in and puts 60k down and finances the rest. The bank takes a risk on the 40%. The buyer hits a tough time 6 months later, and has to either return the car, or have it repo'd. The bank then either auction's off the car, or gives it back to the dealership to resell....for not much less than it was originally priced! They keep your original down payment (and what ever monthly payments you paid), and STILL get the car to sell again. That's ALOT more than 10k or 10% profit!

    The point is that once you hit a certain percentage in down payment, the risk should be absolutely nullified. Credit problems? Proof of Income? Nothing matters. The bank is in a win-win situation.

    At least that's how it appears to me. If I am wrong, it would be great to hear more opinions.
     
  2. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

    Jan 24, 2005
    3,778
    Idaho
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    If all it will take is saving for another month or two when you can buy it outright, it seems logical to go that route.
     
  3. vhayne

    vhayne Rookie

    Jan 24, 2011
    8
    High Point, NC
    Yes I agree. Initially I hadn't intended on going for a 200k car. I was going to spend 150k or less. It was the "possibility" of credit enabling me to get the more expensive car "sooner" that led me down this route.
     
  4. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

    Jan 24, 2005
    3,778
    Idaho
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Good things come to those who wait :)
     
  5. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Veteran

    May 16, 2007
    5,083
    Missouri
    While I agree the chances of a bank actually losing money on the deal are remote, perhaps they are under other constraints you are not aware of at the moment with regard to lending.

    Say you are trying to get a $100k loan to buy the $200k car. Would they rather loan $100k to you, on paper a poor credit risk, or make three $33k loans on three different cars to people with 750+ credit?

    If your credit score is very low, it may make the officer have to jump through more hoops internally at the bank and they simply don't want the hassle. Or maybe they don't think that even after jumping these hoops they will get approval.

    I assume you are self-employed, and it has only been 18 months or so since the money has been rolling in. When I was in your situation the bank told me 2 years worth of tax records was required, otherwise it is basically just your word, which they consider dubious if your credit is bad.

    The credit score in your situation should not be discounted. It is probably the most important factor between credit score-equity-income.
     
  6. Santiago Montenegro

    Dec 14, 2009
    4,774
    Caracas
    People fail to understand how expensive it is for banks to sell stuff. Their business in not selling cars or homes, but financial intermediation. They suck at selling things.
     
  7. CarbBoxer

    CarbBoxer Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2008
    844
    Houston
    Full Name:
    PW
    Wait a couple months and the price drop and your savings account amounts will equal out.

    Soon Ferrari will put out a 458 Skud type and the 430 scud will be passe.
     
  8. vhayne

    vhayne Rookie

    Jan 24, 2011
    8
    High Point, NC
    That is a very good way of looking at it. And yes, I've heard the 2 years of tax records and such. I suppose that's the main part of the equation that I'm missing...the amount of capital the financial institution has to work with.

    With that said, the dealership is still working on it. Hopefully I'll know something tomorrow (which will mark 1 week since we started this process). The long time can be seen as a good sign however meaning they are considering all aspects, rather than just saying "no".

    I'm just SO close to finally realizing my dream of owning an exotic (and posting my own "new Ferrari family member" thread haha), that it is nerve-wracking to not know what's going on behind the scenes.

    But thanks guys for your replies. It's appreciated.
     
  9. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Banks are purposely tight on credit right now. Add a poor credit score for an exotic type car and they're really going to drag their feet regardless of what you're putting down. I'd try to do it so you aren't dependent on them. Good luck.
     
  10. 430man

    430man Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2011
    489
    Note: I typed this about 6 hours ago but got pulled away before I hit post. Some of it has sorta been covered already, but it's already typed so I'll just hit post.
    ------------

    In general, banks do what you're asking them to do. Large down-stokes move mountains. But you're in a bit of a special case. They are accepting more risk than you think, Let's look from the lender's point of view.

    (in random order)
    How does a guy with poor credit suddenly come up with this much ca$h? Say it with me... Drugs. If the Feds seize it they lose everything. (not saying you're selling drugs... but from a bank boardroom point of view it's a risk)

    If you came in with 110K down on a 200K house they would probably write you a lot easier. Why? Banks like houses, notwithstanding the real estate bubble, as long as the house is insured, it's going to be worth something. Even if the house burns down, the lot has value. Which brings my next point.

    If your credit is bad the bank sees you as irresponsible. If you're irresponsible, you might let your insurance lapse. Let the insurance lapse on a car and "do a Dietrich" and they lose.

    A Scuderia is an unknown, banks hate unknowns. Banks know houses. Banks know F-150s. I doubt the loan officer has even heard of a Scuderia.

    Yes your business boomed. Can the bubble pop next month? Banks like to see 2 years of boom.

    There are other reasons but I'll wrap it up with this thought. Banks are not in the car business. THE LAST thing they want is a super expensive car they have to sell.... What if you rag it? Even if you never make the first payment, it would take six months to get the car back... How much ---uninsured-- damage can you do to a $200K car in 6 months? Especially if you know it is going back? How much is a Scuderia clutch?

    Then if you rag it, they have to have someone on staff with the knowledge to oversee getting it restored to a sellable condition. There's nobody at the bank with the title "Vice President in charge of Scuderia repair."
    ----------------------

    Your point is that lending you money should be a no-brainer.

    My point is that the bank has thousands of reasons not to take this risk when there are much safer bets for them to put money on.

    BTW What business are you in? That might make a big difference to the bank too.
     
  11. vhayne

    vhayne Rookie

    Jan 24, 2011
    8
    High Point, NC
    Thanks for taking the time to type up that well-thought-out reply. You make very many excellent points, that I again, did not realize.

    To answer a few of your questions.

    The bank in question is Ferrari Financial. So I would hope they'd know what a Scuderia is. :)

    Our company is an online company. We sell digital designs (basically software) for sewing machines. For this transaction, we have submitted nearly every single ounce of info possible to the bank (Paypal statements, bank deposits, and even spending reports). Doing this has actually helped this possibily work. We just submitted even more information yesterday, and they were absolutely stunned that they had something so well put together to work with.

    But no, I don't sell drugs lol. Infact, my family doesn't even drink.
     
  12. bigdavyc

    bigdavyc Karting

    Feb 28, 2010
    66
    Tallahassee, FL
    Yep I'd say the biggest risk is if you drive it into a ditch.
    Also, in the event of a government seizure aren't the lenders protected?
     
  13. Face76

    Face76 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 21, 2006
    13,478
    The Other Oz
    Full Name:
    M Wilborn
    As others have stated, banks are in the business of making money. They make the most money, and protect their account holders best, when they do things to make money that they are most familiar with. My wife works in a regional bank and one of my biggest clients is another bank. I am very impressed with their knowledge of finance and making money. They both make money by lending money to people who pay it back. They love to make money from people who have other relationships with them through their business or other financial transactions.

    Banks dislike making loans to people they don't know or can expect to have little other financial interaction with. Banks will sometimes make allowances for new customers who they have a reasonable expectation with doing more business with if they treat them right. In other words, make allowances to attract other business from the client that they currently have at a competitor bank.

    You would probably have a better chance of getting a loan with the bank where you do your business banking. One-time only attempts to borrow money from a highly-focused lending institution, such as Ferrari Financial, will be met with poor results if you have spotty credit no matter how familiar the lending institution is with your collateral.

    I am glad your business is booming in this economic climate, you are truly fortunate. Why not go your business bank?
     
  14. vhayne

    vhayne Rookie

    Jan 24, 2011
    8
    High Point, NC
    Kindof a long story actually. As I stated earlier, our company is quite young. My current bank, demands a tax return of 2 years, in addition to nearly perfect credit to grant any kind of loan.

    Seriously, this entire credit thing with the car wasn't planned. I had absolutely no intention of financing anything (hopefully ever again). It wasn't until talking with the salespeople, and them assuring me that they could 100% work something out, that I even considered doing it. I figured "what the hell", if they can make it work, I'll take it. Much less money out of pocket for the time being, and perhaps it'll help me repair my credit a bit (something I'm planning on working on this year).

    It still might work out. They told me they would know something for sure on Monday (yep, been told that before...lol). So we'll see. <fingers-crossed>

    As for our business, thank you. I agree, it actually makes us feel kindof bad that we are doing so well, while our friends and family aren't. So we try to "give back" as much as we can within reason. We run fun contests to give back to our customers (over 20k in prizes last year), and always helping out our loved ones. It's a blessing, and must be shared.

    With that said however, a dream is a dream, and it's time to make it a reality. It's time to finally own an exotic! :)
     
  15. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 29, 2008
    13,146
    Salida Colorado
    Full Name:
    Mark Passarelli
    The government (DEA, ATF, FBI, city and state police, etc.) are notorious for unlawfull siezure and it is impossible to get your stuff back even after you have been proven innocent in a court of law. They dont care if someone else ownes it or has a lien on it.
     

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