The Blame game: Is it fair to blame Bridgestone??

Damn. You're clairvoyant, huh?

It was just a matter of time before the competition caught up; I don't know what internal changes have gone on at Ferrari but it's obvious that something's not working right; tires, chassis, engine, etc. could all be a factor but I believe it's just a matter of the rest of the field catching up.
Tires are a part of it, but they're not everything. Although, if Ferrari moved to Michelins, who's to say they'd be any quicker.

 

Don't underestimate the importance of tires. After all, they're the ONLY thing that connects the car to the track.

 

If I'm underestimating, could you clarify how Bridgestone (Ferrari's own boutique tire co.) have gotten it SO wrong?

They're slower in Qualifying, they're slower over a race distance (kimi was on a heavy load and rocketed off at the start and was up to a 9 second lead over P2 by lap 8) and up until Imola, Bridegstones couldn't last a race distance.

I could see 6-8 seconds over a race distance granted on tires, but 30 + seconds? It's not "just" tires...

 

Yep, I tend to agree. It seems likely that shortcomings in the aero or chassis can easily show as tire problems. Of course the tires could indeed suck, but any chassis/aero problems will manifest itself in tirewear. Do the tires wear out too fast or is the car "hard" on the tires? Do the tires have crappy grip, or is the chassis so behind the competition that it can't keep up? We'll never know.

Sort of like how you can have best hp/motor out of the competition, but can be slower than others if you need to run more wing due to chassis issues.

 

Not quite true: These cars are even more "connected" to the road by means of downforce. So all the aero stuff is just as important.

Point in case: If they weren't connected through the aero, none of the wind tunnels would need a rolling road underneath the car models. They could have the models hanging in mid air (as does the airplane industry). But the interaction between the car and the pavement by means of air flowing by is of crucial importance.

 

when you hire your own dedicated tyre boutique, you take away their scale for development costs. self induced problem by F and Bridg.

but it's more than tyres, they seem a step behind, deranged by their lack of competitiveness and it's hard to move back up a step on the moving escalator of competition

 

This is a hit-or-miss way to go. You will be a Hero or a Zero.

Doesn't having too much money & power let Ferrari get themselves into thses kind of risky situations?

 

It's easy to say it's all bridgestone's fault but the blame goes all the way around. Even Schu bears some of the blame. It was his mistake in qualifying that cost them a possible victory at imola. They obviouly sat back thinking no one had caught up but it seems everyone did. Starting the year with last years car was mistake number one. Pushing every else away from bridgestone so they'd be the only ones using them was mistake number two. Michelin has so many other teams doing the testing so they're getting way more information than Ferrari alone can provide.( I know about minardi and i'm not even gonna address it, lol). That coupled with the fact that the rules had changed and all the top teams have been trying to knock them off the top for a while now made it only a matter of time before it happened. You cannot blame just michelin blame can go around to many.

 

"Blame" is kind of a harsh word to use. Are they the reason for Ferrari's fall? Largely. Michelin has been the superior tire for the past 3 years, which is why most every other team is using them. I remember Ralf Schumaker stating, in 2003, that tires were the reason Williams was moving in on Ferrari. I think Rory Byrnes did a good job in designing a car last year that worked well with the Bridgestones, but obviously they are struggling with a tire design that will last an entire race.

To me, it's just clear that Michelin is a superior tire maker.

 

But tyres determine a great deal the effectiveness of the aero-package and even of the chassis as a whole. You can have a magnificently balanced chassis, but when the tyres don't work, you have nothing. It is a harmony of enginepower, aero-characteristcs, chassis and tyres, and at the end of the day, it usually are the tyres that make the difference.

Be that as it may, it seems as if Michelin have caught up, and it would only be a matter of time, since they have a huge data advantage over the Bridgestone-runners. Today, there are three teams on Bridgestones, two of which have hardly any testingbudget whatsoever.

Ferrari and Bridgestone have joined forces with just one goal in mind: getting worldtitles and getting them as soon as possible. Short term goal that is. They knew they needed eachother and so, Ferrari effectively got her very own, private tyresupplier. We have to applaude Ferrari and Bridgestone for reaching that goal in the spectacular fashion in which they did it. Those records will be around for quite some time. It was only inevitable that Michelin and their frontrunners would catch up, and now they have.

It is up to Ferrari/Bridgestone to provide the answer, but its going to be very hard to match Michelins datanumbers. Even if the Michelinteams are in a gentlemensagreement (which seems it will be broken as soon as the teams see the need for further testing)

 

Tires have a lot to do with Ferrari's shortcomings on the track...I wonder what happens to their longevity if they switch to Michelins. But I also think Ferrari got caught with their pants down when they assumed the strategies that worked for them for the past two or three season will work again by:

1. continuing to work with Bridgestone to receive proprietary tires
2. delaying the introduction of F2005 and thinking F2004 would be competitive

They have a real problem and it's not just about tires...based on the technical data that were discussed by Steve Machete the new gearbox was designed to accommodate some of the aero changes that were required to overcome the new regulation and keep the car on the ground. I have a feeling aside from the fact that the new gearbox is less than perfect there are aerodynamic issues with the car that are not easily spotted by casual observers.

 

Wade through all the excuses and justifications you want. It comes down to one simple thing. Michelin's are dominating. Bridgestones are not. Would we blame Bridgestone for an engine failure? No. Enzo didn't want excuses. He wanted results. My humble opinion.

 

MS and tires are one issue - how can you account for a cracked engine block in the other car?

 

Driving on flat tires stressed the engine to the point of breakage!

 

RB has always been given the bad car

 

I'll take it.

 

I think that Ferrari's problems stem from the fact that they are Bridgestone's sole client; all other teams are expendable. Michelin had the benefit of testing with a number of different teams each running different chassis, suspension setups, etc., so they had a wider range of cars by which they could test and spot flaws in their tires' performance and durability. Michelin did not limit itself to making tires for one team, whereas Bridgestone hitched it's wagon to Ferrari's horse (pardon the pun) and they aren't able to accomodate the Ferrari's setup. Ferrari and Bridgestone have noone to blame but themselves jointly. Oddly enough none of the other Bridgestone supplied teams seem to be having problems with their tires; although their tires are admittedly constructed to suit somebody else's car and compromises their cars' handling so they can't push, they still aren't having flats. I would have expected more of the Bridgestone teams to be having problems.

 

OK, maybe I was being a tad liberal. I simply meant so say that tires are the one thing that physically connect the car to the road. Granted that if the aerodynamics (or anything else) suck, so will the performance. Maybe some of us tend to focus on the tires because they're not allowed to change them as often? "shugging shoulders"

 

The problem is not the tires. Schumacher is very fast, maybe still the fastest. But the bad luck is incredible. And the competition is that much better. This will be an interesting season, even if Ferrari does not win the championship.

But you should bet that Schumacher will start winning by mid-season.

 

The tires had to be completly redesinged this year. Take last years info and throw it in the trash. Ferraris insistance on Bridgestone was a gamble; limited tire testing per team x 1 ( or 2 ) vs same testing per team x 8 or 9 = disaster. in the old days with unlimited testing a tire could be developed FOR THAT CAR, read Ferrari. Add transmission problems, over driving mistakes, and a second driver with average, for F1, skills and these are the results. Dont throw in the towel just yet, Ferrari can do amazing things.

 

Anthony,

First of all it is NOT 2006, it is still 2005 and the current lemon of a car is the F2005

Now as I have been saying all along (and so has M. Schumacher in his comments that Bridgestone have unfairly been getting a lot of slack) that it is the Ferrari/Bridgestone package that is weak NOT just the Bridgestone tyre.

Like all assembled components, everything has to work together. Thus if the Ferrari chassis and aero package is not correctly loading the tyres then the tyres will not get enough heat into them and thus grip correctly. This will lead to increased wear as the traction is poor.

I believe we have 2 problems with the F2005:
- Ferrari have fncked up the aero revisions and their car (like the Williams) is not producing enough downforce.
- The Bridgestone tyres do not seem to last the distance (witness the failures at Spain ... this was not just tread wear but structural failures).

It is impossible for us to know that Bridgestone tyres are the sole cause of the F2005 lack of performance ... only the Ferrari engineers/team know what the real CAUSE of the problem is.

One thing I can 100% be certain of, is that if you put Michelins on the F2005 it would NOT solve the problem. F1 is a science, if Ferrari changed tyre manufacturer it would take probably a whole season and a new chassis before they got the optimal use of them ... it aren't like our cr@ppy road cars

Pete

 

Evidence suggest it is the tires, in the two cool races so far this year, Ferrari had their best results. In all the sunny/hot races they have been off the pace.

 

I'd agree with that. Actually even before Malaysia and Bahrain I read a report in which they said the main problem for Bridgestone is the kerning of the rubber in hot temperatures. So Imola's great performance wasn't really a surprise. What did surprise me was the fact, that even the relative mild warm weather in Spain (27 C) was too warm for the tires. Maybe part of that was also the high G forces on the left tires. But if you think ahead about what's in store there are going to be a lot more equally and warmer races. It'll be a long summer for the Scuderia before they see cooler temps again.