The BORA

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by wbaeumer, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. ANF289

    ANF289 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2016
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    #1176 ANF289, Apr 23, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
    In response to an earlier note, $310,000 for a Bora?! Yes, stunned! Is this the beginning of a trend or an aberrant occurrence? That depends on the auction bidders real reasons for valuing the car. As already pointed out, the Bora in question is the least desirable version based on aesthetics and performance. That said, it is believed to be relatively untouched and factory-fresh original. To me, the Bora is as much a work of art as it is the pinnacle of Maserati’s golden age. An early daily driver captures that mystique in ways that later versions just can’t, regardless of condition. The real question is, does anyone care if a Mona Lisa is restored? For those who assume the answer is no, then their price paradigm has shifted.
     
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  3. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    While I agree with this some older, long term owners had always yearned for around 400 HP as the chassis felt like it could handle that though not as a race car, it leans a lot in the turns but that characteristic was and intentional part of the original formula.

    There was one infamous Bora that got a 427 aluminum block transplant and according to lore eventually burned up. That was back when they were an inexpensive exotic. Alex Pentov out of LA?

    I also know of one that got the high performance treatment by a tuner who really knew what he was doing and when I contacted him about it he told me it was a bad idea as it really changed the lovely originally character of the car too much and cooling became an even bigger issue. That was about 20 years ago and technology has certainly changed a lot since then.
     
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  4. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Wrong. They all drive about the same but the bumpers are an issue for many people.
     
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  5. ANF289

    ANF289 Rookie

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    Yes, they all drive about the same, but some do appreciate the differences between a 4.7 and a 4.9.
     
  6. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #1180 staatsof, Apr 23, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
    Ok fair enough. I thought you were referring to the USA performance penalties due to emissions controls and cam timing. I'm pretty certain those issues were addressed on #1044 a very long time ago.
     
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  8. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    THE critical issue, as I found out when I bought a US K, is the final drive ratio.
    The difference it makes to the character of the car is so profound that I had no choice but to convert the US diff to euro spec.

    The rest of the problems outlined above are relatively much easier to fix!
     
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  9. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    There is no single final drive ratio, you could order what you wanted ... but as purchasers of used Maseratis one is stuck with how it came. I can't comment on what the Khamsin is like to drive but I rather like the Bora with more aggressive gearing because I find it far more useful than than the rather lofty gearing to get you up to 160 mph. I have driven both at top speed and they do tend to wander once you hit 140 anyway. My friend wanted an even more relaxed top end experience in his Bora so when he had the ZF transaxel gone though by RBK he also had them put the Pantera 5th gear ratio in. I never understood that since he never took the car much over 100 and he and I went to the Nevada Silver State open road race several times together but refused to take his Bora, said the car was too old. He just liked seeing the lower rpms when driving 70-80.

    In the USA 0-60 performance is considered pretty important so that along with the automatics in a K means that the preponderance of Maseratis from that era are going to be geared that way.
    As I said, I like the more suitable power oriented gearing when winding through hills with switchbacks.
     
  10. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
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    ‘remember these cars were manufactured for a time when the USA had a 55mph National Speed Limit. It wasn’t fully repealed until 1995. Also don’t forget about those years when a car’s speedometer stopped at 85mph.
     
  11. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    If so, could you or anybody else here point me to a single factory US spec 5 speed Khamsin w/other than a 3.77:1 final drive.
    Thanks.
     
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  13. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    :rolleyes: Yeah sure ... I have a registry of all of them with all the technical details.
     
  14. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

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    #1186 boralogist, Apr 24, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
    Even by your standards that is a stupid response.

    We have so many very well informed K owners here, we have Marc w/ his immense knowledge/database, and some of us have direct access to Ermanno/Fabio et al.
    I was seeking the combined input of them all to shed some light on an interesting issue.
     
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  15. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    You sure do run to the insults quite quickly, need to do something about that.
    It wasn't dumb at all. Of course I can't come up with a list. I know of one that like you got converted and he was also working on trying to put a Mercedes 4spd auto in the car but that was around 86-87. I saw it being worked in the West Coast Maserati distributor service garage and asked the service manager what was going on. Call British Motors in SF and ask their service manager or better yet Bruce Qvale. BTE you're in the Bora thread. ;)

    Come on I know you can play nicer.
     
  16. MK1044

    MK1044 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    @Nembo1777 can probably provide this information.
     
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  17. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    I have no record of a Khamsin supplied with a different axle ratio as requested by a client. However, as Boralogist has done with his car, several US K's that have been acquired by Europeans have since been given longer axle ratios like European Khamsins. AM120US1000 for example, the very first US car which has been in Norway for many years, had that done.

    Having driven quite a few Euro and US K's you can really feel the difference.
     
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  18. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    What's the top speed at redline with the lower ration diff?
     
  19. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

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    #1191 boralogist, Apr 26, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2022
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    PS

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Well 127 mph is very low though as I said before in the USA at that time it was still fast and quick was much more valued.
    What about 0-6o times?
    My Bora hits that in 6 seconds, nevertheless my 84 Biturbo outruns my Bora until about 120 at which point the flying brick peters out and the Bora is just getting warmed up.
     
  21. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    while it was nice of you to post the calculations, as an FYI all the numbers are listed in the owner’s manual with the various final drive ratios.
     
  22. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    Hello---
    I recall you making a similar comment before.

    Could you please indicate the page numbers of where such data are available in the Bora (available for manual only) or Khamsin (available for manual and auto) Use Manuals for the various final drive ratios.

    Thanks.
     
  23. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    You have questioned my views on this issue more than once.
    Please provide the data, to set me straight once and for all.

    Thanks.
     
  24. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    I think he's traveling on business and I doubt his manuals are with him.
     
  25. emsiegel13

    emsiegel13 Formula Junior
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    Go to the following website, RBT Transmissions, and click gear ratios. When you get there look for Try RBT's gear ratio calculator and click it and you can setup programs for seeing what'd speed you get from different differential gears vs. rpm using wheel size as a parameter for the calculations.
     
  26. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    Courtesy of Ivan starting on page 179 https://thecarnut.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MUM_KhamsinAm120.pdf

    these are for the Euro spec 5 speed 3:31 and auto 3:07. The 3.77 is also published somewhere.
     
  27. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
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    #1199 boralogist, Apr 28, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2022
    Hahaha.o_O
    No. No No.
    WE ALL KNOW THAT THE STANDARD EURO 5 speed (3.31:1) and auto (3.07:1) numbers are in the user manuals.

    The question I responded to regarded US spec 3.77:1 which is not in any of the user manuals; which is why
    I HAD TO CALCULATE IT!


    After all I could not respond like you and say:
    ''The 3.77 is also published somewhere."


    That would be embarrasing!
    ;)
     
  28. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Three Time F1 World Champ
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    You need to dial it back. This response is dangerously close to violating our rules here. Disagreeing with another member is fine, implying that he's stupid is not.

    D
     

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