The bottom falling out of F1 ?

Formula One facing crisis as futures of THREE teams are thrown into greater doubt

Formula One facing crisis as futures of THREE teams are thrown into greater doubt - Mirror Online



Bernie is not happy.

We could loose the Austrian GP too...

 

If vw are not interested anymore I could see Red Bull actually leaving

Maybe they can become Jaguar and Minardi again

Or ford

 

Austrian GP I'm not too bothered about.

However, 3 teams going is BAD, whichever way you cut it.

Lotus is gone if Renault doesn't buy, fact.

I am somewhat baffled that Mercedes can simply refuse to sell an engine to a willing customer. Mercedes wanted this engine, and now someone wants to use it and they refuse. I understand that obviously they want the advantage but not many people are in favour of watching the Mercedes wins everything procession, in a way Mercedes is actively killing the sport by not only their uber alles domination but refusing having any competition.

 

Red Bull being bought is a very small chance too, especially with VW occupied with other things right now.

No private individual right now is going to spend hundreds of millions buying an F1 team, let alone 2...and then the hundreds of millions a year needed in investment...with no guarantee of monetary reward after all this.

The only chance for RB is a buyout by a manufacturer. VW as I said is occupied elsewhere, others seemingly aren't interested due to the many failings of teams such as Toyota, Honda and BMW over the last decade or 2.

Corporations are too preoccupied being all green.

I haven't heard of coca cola having a go either...and they really don't need the advertising.

This is not a time for F1 to be losing a couple of teams.

 

+1 what do they want an empty grid? I wonder if Bernie will move towards 3 car teams. Why not 4 then......

 

In the other hand, if you have an advantage, you don't want to give it to the opposition, do you?

I suppose that for Mercedes, giving their engine to their potentialy main rival could be like handing over ammunitions to the enemy. It's just not done.

On top of that, Mateschitz wants absolute guaranty of parity with the works team.
Same with Ferrari.

 

Mercedes' responsibility is to win races and do the best they can for their brand. It's up to other teams to make themselves competitive, not for Mercedes to do it for them. It is the responsibilty of others to ensure the sport is in good health.

 

Renault wanted the engine and threatened to quit if the formula did not go in the direction it ended up going. Mercedes simply agreed. I do not see how it's Mercedes job to clean up after Renault (and Red Bull). F1 isn't Kumbaya...it's back-stabbing politics and greed held together by pretty wrapping paper.

It's not good where the Red Bull/Renault situation has ended up, but they have nobody but themselves to blame. Renault has what is currently a garbage engine and Red Bull is on an island surrounded by burning bridges...they have proven to be extremely poor sportsmen. That, to me, might be worse than them leaving.

 

i said it before & I'll say it again!!!
It's time for berni to leave f1.

On the other hand what engines are being supplied to haas?

 

Yes I agree, that's why I somewhat understand that they're on the fence. But it's no good winning all the races when no one is watching anymore. Long term vision of F1 as a whole should be more important.

Yes, true. Though I think Mercedes was also pushing hard for the engine and engine technology, they had the winning design put together long before...One of the Merc boys got an extra seat on the board of F1 and this helped push for the rule change, because Merc threatened to leave the sport (which also meant NO engines for any Mercedes team).

Ferrari for Haas.

Bernie was against these engines, along with Ferrari. I'm unsure how Lotus' financial problems are related to Bernie, nor how Renaults inability to build engines is his fault or Red Bull's eternal whinging when they're not winning.

IMO Bernie wants the right things for the sport but can't enforce them. His other problem is that the sold so much of F1 to CVC, he's a bit like their puppet...

 

I don't remember Mercedes threatening to quit unless engine rules were changed. I sure DO remember Renault making that threat, though.

Will Buxton said this (a year and a half ago) https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2014/04/06/screw-you-guys-im-going-home/:

 

Joe Saward was reporting today that Renault has basically bought lotus or has the first refusal of purhase from the reciever.

as for Redbull - % Toro Rosso? i dont know. F-1's bottom fell out years ago, when the rights were sold for 100 years, and then levereged with CVC. when Max sold out the FIA's position - the "sport" ceased to exist, and the business was officially born.

problem is the business is based on a pretty fickle set of criteria. Bernie needs to pay CVC $$$$$$$$$ but cant control he economies that feed F-1 ... that is why the 2007 melt down really killed F-1 but we are still reaping that impact on a lag.

who can afford to pay Drivers $50M a year? even for a WDC? how can you make money when you are spending $300-500M a year on a team? ( Ferrari - Mercedes - McLaren - Red Bull) are all in that group +/-. where does the money come from? McLaren cant find top tier sponsors ... and Bernie and FOM just dont care... until it is certian that teams leave. then all of a sudden the money will be found.

My solution is to declare F-1 defunct, all the teams pull out and start a new "F-1" World Grand Prix or something .... buy back the rights and start over. the teams have to be the owners - and have the FIA or some group like AOC run the sport... where the teams cant manipulate the rules.

 

+1

Bernie is also responsible for global warming, the national debt and the water shortage here in CA!

I don't think he's anyone's puppet, but as with any CEO he has a fiduciary responsibility to his company to maximize earnings. And he's damn good at it.

I've noted before, I think F1 is the *only* thing he actually cares about. His daughters are all set for life, so they're not an issue. He genuinely wants the best for F1. We may not always agree with his actions, but simply saying "Bernie must go" is, IMO, naive at best.

Having said that, I'd like to see some kind of lackey following him around to learn the business - Not even he can go on forever.......

Cheers,
Ian

 

Ghosn hasn't given the nod yet, and nothing is signed yet.

The negotiations have been between Renault Sport and Genii, but it's Renault itself that will have to foot the bill.

Lotus comes with a load of unpaid bills that Lopez don't want to settle, expecting Renault to do it. Renault gets cold feet with the mountain of debts.

The industrial climate in the auto industry isn't an incentive to spend silly money in F1.

Renault itself will be affected by the diesel crisis, and may have to review its whole range of cars to satisfy the emission requirements that will soon be tightened. That will cost money. So, it's not a time to commit to F1.

As followers, we have blinkers, but for the motoring industry, the survival of F1 is the last of their worries.

 

I like yer thinking!....... [Although, I'm not a fan of the AOC - they'd have Merc breathing thru a hummingbirds sphincter by now! No thanks! ]

I could make an argument that the team owners should be the ones making the rules though - It's their skin in the game after all - and it seems to work pretty well in US sports (NFL, NHL etc).

One problem though, as I've noted many times, is these guys can't agree on the color of the sky, let alone a rule set - Seems it's all a massive compromise. They need (an elected?) commissioner who's all powerful, similar to what we have here in major US sports. His (or her!) word is never questioned, at least in public.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Maybe F1 needs to fail for a year or two? The current model isn't employed in any other major sport in the world, and there is a good reason for that.

Some form of revenue sharing would make the sport more exciting and potentially eliminate "pay drivers" if done properly. But the teams in power won't let that happen.

It's all well and good to point the finger at the teams which are failing and say they can't manage, which may be true, but if there are no teams left to race against, then what do you really have?

 

Football isn't doing better than F1, by the look of it.

Sports that have a huge global following have become major businesses.

Lots of money is involved, and the organising bodies have been handed monopolies.

When the model fails, it drags down the whole sport, since there are no alternative.

 

The teams will always spend more than they can afford no matter what engines they have and the only way to stop that is to put a cap on that spending to which they will NEVER agree on. As an aside, Formula E has all this nonsense to look forward to.

As Bernie has said previously, giving the teams a say and a vote instead of one person just telling them the rules that they will race to, was the worst thing he ever did.

 

Which football - American or European, and by what criteria? Revenue? Fan satisfaction?

The NFL is doing great from a revenue growth perspective and fan satisfaction perspective. They had about 12B USD in revenue last year, up from 10B the prior year. The target is 25B by 2027. They are actually ahead of that forecast. All with good competition, the ability for any well-run team to win, and without selling games to venues in countries with poor records on human rights.

Of course the global appeal isn't as large, but the model is sound. The owners own the game, the NFL is the organizing body. Owners have an equal say. Each team in the NFL got 226M USD last year as part of revenue sharing. Lotus can't feed their employees.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

The glitz and glamour isn't enough anymore either. Its too restrictive for anyone who goes to an event unless you spend the 5K a person to go to the paddock club. They're pricing people out.

 

Given the ongoing revelations on CTE and the safety of the game I would rather put my money on F1 being around and healthy in 20 years than the NFL.

 

I am talking about FIFA, the world body for football - our football.

It's engulfed in a multi-millions $ major corruption scandal in Europe, the US, South America, Asia, etc... .

No wonder, there is a lot of money organising international tournaments, huge television rights, etc...

We are talking here about budget that are probably bigger than the Olympic Games, and more difficult to trace.



Lotus was prevented access to its facilities by a court order. Lotus is sued by the British Inland Revenue for massive arrears in taxes. The team is on the brink of bankruptcy.

 

You could argue either way. There is obviosly exposure there and I don't think the settlement to date has been fair for retired players. But they have modified the game and protocols to mitigate it. Still, they are the most powerful athletes in the world running head on into each other - there will always be risk. Just like driving 200mph with your helmet exposed ; ) Some here think that auto racing will go away because people will loose the connection and taste for it. I am not one of those people. Either way, we are talking business model really IMHO.

 

Yah, I thought good boxing tickets were too much money....then I got interested in F1 and...

: O

LOL.

 

I think Bernie's CVC investment needs to go tits up.

Only then can people who want to build cars and race them prevail.