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The Boxer Market

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by st.tully, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. st.tully

    st.tully Karting

    Jan 29, 2004
    246
    Greetings all -
    You all are the only guys who can understand my problem (the wife just thinks I crazy) - here it is: I bought my first Ferrari (328 gts) about ten days ago. I had been looking for either a 328 or a Boxer in perfect original condition - had to be blue or black. I never could find a the right Boxer. Well, this morning I got a call from my trusted independent dealer and he has a line on a perfect black 1983 Boxer for @ $80,000.00.

    I love my 328. But the Boxer is .. well, a BOXER!!! Truly a member of the supercar elite. What should I do? Anyone out there think a Boxer might be a good investment? We all know there was a time not too long ago that Boxers went for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Basically the only way I could justify owning two Ferraris is if the Boxer might be better than my 401k.

    Let me know your thoughts - especially those of you that drive a Boxer on a regular basis. I should have listened to Fchat member Frank Parker who told me that once I bought a 328, a Boxer wouldn't be far behind.

    Cheers, george
     
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  3. AJS328

    AJS328 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Apr 23, 2003
    7,520
    New Jersey
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    Augustine Staino
    Depending on what you would need to pay for the car, a Boxer could be a good investment. In the years after the exotic car market collapse the Boxer seemed to take more of a hit than it deserved. Now people are realizing that it is a lot of car for the money. I think that the prices are going to start creeping up if they haven't already. I'm sure some of the other guys that are more knowledgeable on these cars will chime in soon.
     
  4. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
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    Jan 21, 2002
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  5. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    i too have a boxer and would agree w/ franks statment that you will wish you had a boxer in no time after your 328 purschase. i did a similar thing and after buying my 308 gtb qv, i was already looking for the 512 bbi. probably not a better place to put money than a 401k but probably a solid ferrari investment. while it may not be 100k in the next 5 years(i hope it is however) it will no doubt remain stable and will appreciate more than the cars that post dated it. boxers are the real dealand nobody seems to question their legitimacy in all car circles...they were considered true supercars in their day and still are.
     
  6. GaryReed

    GaryReed F1 Rookie
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    Feb 9, 2002
    3,070
    Seattle
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    George,

    Having owned two different 308s over the past seven years, I stepped up to a Boxer in November and I couldn't be more pleased with my choice of car.

    They are just fantastic to drive and behold.

    To quote Ferris Bueller, "If you have the means, I highly recommend it."

    Gary
     
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  8. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    I have had a 308 (2-valve), 308 (4-valve), and a 328.........all nice cars. But the Boxer (83 BBi), that I currently have, is just a totally different breed of animal. It compares most, to me, to the Daytona that I once owned.
     
  9. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
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    Herr Prof.
    I don't think any of these cars is an investment. Yes, i know, you've heard it a thousand times, but if you are going to drive it, its value will decline. And, if you sit on it, its value will decline. Boxers have been undervalued for as long as i have been buying Ferraris and you rarely even hear about the possibility that their market is on the upswing.

    I'll bet, other than the occasional top off cruise, you drive the Boxer alot more. I've had both a 328 and a boxer, and can't think of a reason why you'd prefer the 328, other than that its a smaller, better handling package. But, compared to the torque of the Boxer, and its overall exoticness, you'll put up with the semi-weird balance of the car. (It doesn't feel weird to drive, but that's because they engineered the **** out of it to compensate for that topheavy, rear engine. You just don't want to get that car out of line too much). In short, dump the 328. Buy the boxer if its a good one. Don't look back. Drive the **** out of it. Enjoy.
     
  10. PINNIN512

    PINNIN512 Formula 3

    Aug 30, 2002
    1,014
    California
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    David
    Amazing!! I think the more i drive my Boxer the more attention it gets from future Ferrari owners. I get hard core drivers asking me how much can i get a car like yours for or Is it for sale? I enjoy the conversations and stuned they feel the way i felt 2 years ago.In most cases these guys are all knowledgeable
    about the model and find it awsome the cars are still driven today.I know 4 interested buyers that are looking mainly because they have seen several at Crystal Cove in California. My wish is having California the Boxer capitol of the world.Now to get Arnold into one ............BOXER TERMINATOR!!!!!!
     
  11. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Melbourne
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    Phil Hughes
    I get paid to drive all Ferrari models as part of my work.

    I chose to buy a Boxer because they're THAT BIT SPECIAL.

    Don't get me wrong, there are faster cars, better handling cars, certainly more reliable cars, but the Boxer is the best example in the world of how a car is greater than the sum of it's parts.

    I love mine to bits.......regularly! No, not really, It's in the uk for sale ( www.theferraricentre.co.uk ) and I've been in Australia for 4 years!

    Basically, if you lose sleep over not owning your ideal Boxer, you should buy it.
     
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  13. jmillard308

    jmillard308 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2003
    5,931
    Perth West Oz
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    John Millard
    Why don't you bring it out to Australia - obviously none of the Poms want it :)
    You may well find someone that has a good car (perhaps a Glass 308 or something) that may wish to trade ;)
     
  14. Onlinesys

    Onlinesys Formula Junior

    May 1, 2002
    425
    Hong Kong
    Boxer is a fantastic and powerful car with charisma and probably could hold the value better than 308/328/348/355 but DEFINITELY NOT a good investment. Prepare to invest alot of money on maintenance. My friend spent more than US$125k during the last few years on his 512BBi previously owned by Eric Clapton and be prepared to spent more from time to time to make it in a so called "good investment item"
     
  15. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2002
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    houston/geneva
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    Ross
    dump the 328 and go for the boxer. but don't consider it a replacement for your 401k - it never will be. it may appreciate in value but you won't sell it.
     
  16. Steve275

    Steve275 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Jun 20, 2003
    364
    UK
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    Steve
    There's lots to consider here and it may take an age to explain, However here goes, The 365 BB 512 BB and BBi are the last sub $100k USD /£60k GBP Ferrari Supercar's available today. They are still considered 'Sale Proof' by many Professisonal Auction houses, despite the Lepeltier collection 512 BBi selling for 116k SFr late last year. The price of these vehicles is "very unlikely" to go up in the next 5 - 8 years because of the massive, (Not to be under estimated), maintenance costs of these cars. The US does have a finite number of these cars though being as it is now illegal to import tham, and 12 examples were exported to Europe and the Middle East last year alone. Numbers produced were greatly lower than the 3X8 series of cars and are therefore a rarer car, but to buy one for this reason is, IMO, flawed logic, Surely you'll be buying to drive the thing ? and if driver satisfaction is your goal then again a Boxer is not the car to have. There are loads of other things like parts scarcity, interior comfort, gearbox reliability, Tyres (Skinny Metric TRX's on BBi - XWX on BB's) availiability ETC, Etc.

    Rambled a bit there,

    Your choice, I love 'em, but would not swap my 328 for one, No way !

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  17. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    Dec 5, 2001
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    Herr Prof.
    Steve328: Not to quibble, but i found the boxer to be one of the best of all the ferraris to drive. Low, powerful, torquey, suprisingly fast, deceptive in its apparent balance, and involving to drive. If you meant low driver satisfaction because the age and probable scarcity of parts makes it less a sure thing for constant use, perhaps. But, i put over 10k miles on mine in about a year without a hitch. Compared to a more modern 12 cyl. ferrari (i went from the boxer to the 550), the boxer was far more satisfying to drive (although it was a little hot in the summer in the cabin).
     
  18. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    44,185
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    Dirty Harry
    The "problem" with Boxers is they are neither old nor new - they're close to new performance (Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't a 512iBB pass a fellow rear-engined 355 on the Autobahn? [but will you drive on the Autobahn - aaaaarrrrgh]), yet without "old" styling of front-engined Ferrari's or the newest of either front or rear-engined Ferraris. To oversimplify, it can easily be mistaken for a 308 or 328 (which nobody should look down upon) by the clueless, yet it exceeds all expectations - except in the marketplace - simply because of the sheetmetal being neither here, nor there. Ridiculous.

    I'm glad I'm not in your shoes today. Rolling pins hurt.
     
  19. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
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    Franklin E. Parker
    Out of the six Ferraris I have owned, the BB512i is my favorite by a long shot. While I liked my ex-328GTS, it is like driving a Kia compared to the Boxer. The Boxer is the most comfortable Ferrari I have owned as well. I have driven mine a little over 5k miles in the 14 months I have owned it, and it was in the shop for a new clutch and a major service for some of that time right after I bought it. Lose the little v8 and step up to the Boxer....you'll be glad you did and never look back. By the way, according to both the Sports Car Market magazine and the Ferrari Market letter, the prices on all three of the Boxer versions are up over the last year. And, I have not noticed the Boxer any more expensive to service and/or repair than the other 12 cylinder Ferraris I have owned. In fact, I believe it has been much cheaper than my ex-TR and about the same as my ex-330GTC and ex-400GT. As to little dinos, my ex-348 Spider service was about the same as my Boxer service. Only my ex-328 service was less because engine removal was not required, but parts and repairs for the 328 were about the same as I recall.
     
  20. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    I still remember the day I was staring at a "Road and Track" magazine cover on the newstand way back in 1978........

    The cover photo was a black Boxer "at speed" on a rainy highway......all I could do was stand there with my jaw hanging down thinking this is the most beautiful car I have ever seen.

    I have never felt that way when watching Magnum PI or looking at 3x8 cars.

    Anything you gain in appreciation (if any) will be eaten by repairs.......so I wouldn't use the 401K argument on wifey.

    Go for it...........
     
  21. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
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    Jan 21, 2002
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    dave m
    Regarding the handling issue due the high center of gravity cause of the engine placement. Mentioned on another thread is the Huge gap between the fender lip and the tire. Is it possible to lower the back springs which might result in better handling and asthetics?
     
  22. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
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    Franklin E. Parker
    What's the deal with the fender gap ? All Boxers have them and I think they make the car look meaner. Further, the last thing you want for the street is an even lower car ! Plus, why would one want to change the looks of a work of art like the Boxer ? It would be like adding big breast to Mona Lisa !
     
  23. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
    1,356
    Tuscaloosa, AL
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    Drew Altemara
    I would be sure to drive a carburated car and an injected car. They have quite a different feel. Just depends on what you want.
     
  24. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
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    Franklin E. Parker
    Drew is correct, drive them all . And, while I liked the looks and sound of those Webbers on the 365 and BB, I thought the BBi injected model was a little quicker and would be easier to live with.
     
  25. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    73,162
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    I don't think there's a Ferrari out there that could be confused with a 401K!

    Those days are gone. BUT if you can drive a Boxer AND support a retirement scheme, then go for it.

    As stated above, just don't confuse the two.

    Every time I pick up my 308GTB from the shop, a 512BBi in the corner calls my name. I can hear it, I just ignore it. For now.

    "A man's got to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
     
  26. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
    1,356
    Tuscaloosa, AL
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    Drew Altemara
    A little more on the differences between the carburated and injected cars.

    First I'm bias, I like the carbed cars better, however since the injected cars are worth more I'm probably in the minority.

    On a longer trip get the injected car. For something to blast around on Sunday morning when everyone else is in church get the carbed car.

    If you are not mechanically inclined get the injected car. If you like to tinker and are "handy" think about the carburated car.

    I think maintenance is about the same on both. Carburated cars are pretty straight forward to work on but you have to like this sort of thing. The CIS fuel injection is now pretty old and it is sometimes harder to diagnose a problem. However, once working fuel injection is probably less headaches.

    Like Frank ,I have owned a number of Ferrari's. I was on my way to buy a Daytona, which I had owned 10 years prior, when the search turned up the Boxer I now have.

    It is one of the best, maybe the best with the exception of a 275GTB short nose, I use to own. Get it, regardless of which type. You will feel like Mario Andretti driving a P4.

    Good luck.
     
  27. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    Nov 17, 2003
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    DO YOU THINK MY REPLY WOULD BE BIASED?
     
  28. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
    3,003
    Kansas
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    Sean F

    Frank Parker,

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you've stated several times that this is simply NOT true. Don't you know someone at the EPA or DOT and he says you can still import a Boxer?
     

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