The Boxer Market | Page 3 | FerrariChat

The Boxer Market

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by st.tully, Feb 17, 2004.

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  1. mrp_e

    mrp_e Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2003
    843
    Coasts
    Full Name:
    Bill

    car and driver recorded 5.6 sec 0-60 with an '86 328 gts.. i still have the issue.
     
  2. PINNIN512

    PINNIN512 Formula 3

    Aug 30, 2002
    1,014
    California
    Full Name:
    David

    Ditto! Dick Merrit had said to me around 300 Boxers are registered with Dot , etc. I spoke to him 2 years ago regarding my new purchase. Of cours these numbers reflected up to 2003.Germany has several owners and probably the second most popular fan of the Boxer.I have never heard of 1500 in the U.S.
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I'll bet there's more..I have personaly seen 10 different ones...And I live in Canada!!
     
  4. GaryReed

    GaryReed F1 Rookie

    Feb 9, 2002
    3,109
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Gary

    Have you ever driven a Boxer at speed? Even ridden in one? I bet the answers are no.

    Redline the Boxer's flat 12 in each gear and you will have a WICKED experience. Bring your Depends, you'll need them.
     
  5. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    The above post was a reference in comparsion to my 930 Porsche vs a Boxer
    concerning only the performance, my 930 is brutally fast compared to my 328 or a Boxer.

    As I said the Boxer is one of my favorite Ferraris, very comparable to my 328 in looks and perfomance with similar 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, a Boxer purchase may be in the future in but it would be in addition to my 328 and 930, all have something unique to offer.
     
  6. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    I own both a 308 and a Boxer...i would say good bye to the 308...the Boxer is a 12 cylinder car and there are not many more than300 in this country...many left the country never to return during the late eightees. I dont think either car is as much fun to drive as a front engined 12, like the daytona or the maranello...but Iwould hold on to my investment Boxer, it hasheld its value wellcompared to other 12 cylinder cars and except for the testarossa, they are still as cheap as you can buy a 2 seater 12. I dont think they will go back to the 275K level of the late eightees,but they are unique and the value of the dollar makes them harderto import from Europe, and should be quite attractive to Europeans. In any case a 360 is 180K these days and a Maranello is 120K to 200K...other than the testarossa, where can you get an 80,000 piece of Ferrari history...the first 12 rear engined production car?
    And as always, beauty and value are in the eyes of the beholder...Enzos, F40 and 288 GTO as well as older 12s are perhaps investments... the rest...drive and enjoy.
     
  7. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    MRP e, but, the 288GTO only sold for $90k when it was new compared to the $400k for the F40 when new. So, the 288GTO has faired much better in the market wouldn't you say ?
     
  8. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    guys, let me chime in...

    on the us numbers issue...at most 300 cars here statewide. i too asked dick merrit(dot) and dick fritz(amerispec) and these guys really do know. i do not care what anyone else says.

    on performance... i, like some others on this thread, have owned a 328 and a boxer. there is simply no comparison in straight line performance. eddie karam said to me when i was initially in the market..."when a 328 is doing 80 mph...the boxer is doing 100mph"! the boxer is a strong car and was clocked by road and track magazine at 0-60 in 5.5 seconds (amerispec fully us legal car...i had even made a call to dick f. to find out if it really was a us smog legal exhaust installed at the time of the test) and r and t had commented that it may have been quicker had the slow 1-2nd gear change been so hindering. boxer is really no 0-60 car but it is quick and the sound is fuggin unreal...like no other...still makes my knees weak when i get out of it!!

    i still have my 308 gtb and continue to love it, but it does get left home in favor of the boxer on most occasions.

    now to the 930 post...i to have a 930 that has been hotrodded by andial in so cal. it produces almost 500 rwp. there is nothing ferrari produces (save the enzo...i think?) that will accelerate like my 930. the 930 makes every car i own seem dead slow and the flames between shifts...well ....hooohaaaa!

    i gotta tell ya atheyg, nothing more fun than totally punking a guy w/ a new 360...especially when his girl is in the car w/ him!!

    pcb
     
  9. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    sorry, i missed a last thought. to me a boxer should be a cornerstone ferrari in any road going ferrari collection.
     
  10. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    I agree
     
  11. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,198
    Lecusay


    Phil Hill did a test drive on a 328 and it did 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, also I know of european 308s stock doing 5.7 sec. in 0-60. Besides anyone purchasing a Ferrari or any other performance car based on 0-60 or 1/4 mile is missing on something big, the race track. In the track a good driver in a 308 will beat a "street racer" or a "green light" street drag race even if the "fast & furious" guy is driving a boxer or a 360. I have seen it happen.
     
  12. Steve275

    Steve275 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Jun 20, 2003
    364
    UK
    Full Name:
    Steve
    So after all this debate AND we take the 308/328 issue out of the equasion - if a choice had to be made, and only 1 choice was allowed, Which would you choose and Why ?

    365 BB...512 BB...512 BBi...?

    Steve
     
  13. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    I had that choice in late 2002 when I started looking for a Boxer. I drove all three versions and chose the BB512i. The 365 was a little smaller, sounded great with its Webers and is the most rare. But, it has a weak clutch, poor cooling system and parts are harder to find. I don't like the 365s looks as much either. The BB512 looks better with the new front and rear treatment along with the side NACA vents. It has the great Weber sound and has the improved cooling system and clutch. But, the Webers still make it less desirable for someone who is going to drive their car 5k to 7k a year. The BB512i has the same great looks as the BB512, plus with the FI it is much easier to drive. And, it has the best acceleration of all the Boxers which is what matters most in the USA with our low speed limits. I now own a 1982 BB512i s/n 42213 and love it. I have driven it over 6k miles since Dec 2003.
     
  14. st.tully

    st.tully Karting

    Jan 29, 2004
    246
    This thread has had some great info and comment. It has made me think carefully about purchasing a Boxer. For a day or so, I would get headed for a 512TR or 512M - but than Frank Parker would speak-up and get me focused back on the Boxer.

    It turned out that the Boxer my dealer offered to secure had a few too many stories and owners (3 in the last 10 years) - the most recent owner changed the color from red to black. I actually like black cars better than red and paint w/o wreck damage doesn't bother me. However, I think a car should stay the original color.

    Today, a good looking red Boxer popped-up on ebay. If evrything said in the auction listing is correct, then this would seem a solid Boxer. I'll be following it closely. This auction should be a measure of the current state of the Boxer Market.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2463097885&category=6212
     
  15. Bryan

    Bryan Formula 3

    #65 Bryan, Feb 26, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. tjacoby

    tjacoby F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,857
    Vancouver Canada
    Full Name:
    tj
    St.tilly - I agree, want to be sure of the mtce costs being swallowed with any Boxer purchase. I'm double/triple thinking as well.

    The boxer on ebay is also listed at a few other spots:
    http://www.exoticaronline.com/inventory/propview.php?view=147

    in Ferrariads of course;
    http://www.ferrariads.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=836&query=retrieval

    in Quebec on CanadaTrader.com;
    http://www.canadatrader.com/trader/result/affich.asp?rubno=4000&r=%271011%27&ste=&sid=&issr=1&yfr=0&yto=0&kfr=0&kto=0&pfr=0&pto=0&dm=1&dp=4&mk=FERRARI&md=&kw=&rc=&or=0&oby=7&pg=4&vid=2690603

    and

    http://www.zrauto.ca/modules/mod_carDetails.cfm?numCarDetailID=167

    Not that I'd be spending anytime on the web looking or anything!
     
  17. st.tully

    st.tully Karting

    Jan 29, 2004
    246
    This seller may have two Boxers as these ads reflect two milages - also it is interesting to note that this Boxer has been on the market for awhile. So, you gentlemen that are in the market for a Boxer, what is holding this Boxer back from being sold? The price is within range as far as the FML is concerned. Anyone seen this one in person and care to comment?
     
  18. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
     
  19. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,205
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    WAIT A MINUTE. HHHmmmm...are we saying a 328 is similar in speed to a boxer, and therefore a testarossa (similar weight/motor/etc)...???

    Now I am still somewhat new to ferrari's, but I NEVER thought a 328 and boxer/testarossa were in the same ballpark speed wise...0-60 or otherwise...

    For folks quoting 328 stats in the mid-fives...HOW?
    Just sold by boxster s (250 HP), which likely weighted LESS than a 328, was much newer,
    and it likely didn't go 0-60 in 5.5 seconds (probably did high 5's, depending on who you believe). The testarossa feels WAY faster in a straight line. Granted, shifting from 1st to second takes a moment...

    I never thought of a 328 as a very fast car in a straight line...how wrong am I?
     
  20. atheyg

    atheyg Guest


    The 328 has a very low ratio 1st gear the boxer is very tall, thats why you'll get the similar 0-60 times even though the carbed Boxers have 100 more HP and weigh almost the same.
     
  21. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    Ken- just noticed your observation about 246's. Yes, they are worth alot more now, some even more than Boxers (at least the GTS version is, in the States), but i still wouldn't consider one at today's market prices a good investment, would you? (Perhaps if you bought one years ago, you could see the market appreciation, assuming you are not under water with resto and maintenance costs).
    I think the same is true, in spades, with the Boxer. Apart from some rare 365BB prototype which may have value to a collector (and, apart from real BB/Lm's), i just don't see Boxer's as an "investment" from a financial standpoint. Great cars, yes; probably sorry i sold my BBi more than any other Ferrari i've owned so far, but the market has been fairly flat on them for years, and as they age, i can't see it getting better for a driver quality car.
    For a show level car, i also don't see them as the next Lusso or 250PF Cabrio II, which, as you know, have finally really taken off in market value in the last couple years. I think letting one sit with no miles is a tragic waste.
    As to the 328, also a terrific car, but do you really see a continued upside on them, from an 'investor's' point of view? Their market price has risen in the past 5 years, with pristine low mileage '89 328's worth more now than they were 5 years ago, but if you bought one today, at say 55-60k dollars, do you really think you are going to see alot more upside on the car? (and if you put mileage on it, you know where its market value goes; if you let it sit, the thing will just deteriorate, making it an expensive rehab proposition for the new owner who actually wants to drive it). So, i guess i'll respectfully disagree with your disagreement.... :)
     
  22. Can Am T333

    Can Am T333 Karting

    Feb 2, 2005
    78
    Full Name:
    Johan
    I'm happy to say I found a Boxer last weekend and it will be delivered next weekend (or whenever the trucker actually shows up). I picked a 512 BB because I can deal with the carbs better than the FI. I hope to do most repairs myself with my buddies.
    I was told by several people that the BB was faster than the BBI. We will see.
    And by the way Athyge, I will race you in your 930 with my Boxer. I will even rent the track. All you have to do is show up ! This is a simple friendly challenge and any Southeast Ferrari guys that have track experience might enjoy this also.
    (full disclosure- I have already rented a race track anyway the last weekend in June at Roaebling Road in Savannah Ga for an annual-duh-birthday party)
     
  23. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    28,029
    Dixie
    Full Name:
    Itamar Ben-Gvir

    That Boxer is on your shoulder talking to you !! Again and again and again.

    It will not go away. Too bad that woman will not let her go for a drivers price.
     
  24. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    17,564
    Savannah


    holy crap! PM SENT ! :)
     
  25. atheyg

    atheyg Guest


    I am in Las Vegas so are my cars if you ever are here, I have a 512BB as well my 930 is highly modded and it is faster than my BB, my 930 has more horsepower than the BB and weighs 484lbs less, its hard to beat a turbo 911 even back in the day when the Boxers were raced against the 930s they didn't have much of a chance with their 450hp vs the Porsche 700hp.
     

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