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The C8 and future 360/F430 sales?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Nachtfalter, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

    May 20, 2018
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    I've had my 01 gated Modena for 15 mos now @ 22K miles.
    Got it with 19k miles.

    Summary of Svc and repairs performed in 15 mo's:
    Belts (were due when I purchased)
    OIl changed (2x)
    New Tires (due upon purchase)
    Clutch Hyd Line Block (leaked after 500 miles)
    Coolant/Water Pump (PM upon purchase)
    All belts (were due when I purchased)
    Hill Shifter bushing - would not shift after 100 miles after purchase (svc by self)
    Blinker Module Fail - install Swiss Scud SS unit (svc by self)
    Replace Frunk leather straps (svc by self)
    Alarm Siren Module Fail - 1000 miles after purchase (svc by self)
    Suspension Mod Fail - 2500 miles after purchase
    Mass Air Meter Fail - Replaced 1000 miles after purchase (svc by self)
    Replacement Rear Rotors/pads on Deck for install by self (when I have time)
    Drivers seat bottom pad came loose - fix by self (reattach rod)
    New Battery - Install by self.
    Tender - Install by self.
    CS Exhaust Sitting in a box - ready for install (when/if I get motivated)
    Immob Defeat Performed by TREV. Still functions as started defeat, and door lock actuator.
    Immob Antenna mod completed - works from 60' now.
    Fixed Drivers side inner door safety light.

    Pending Work:
    Drivers door outer cable on order. Now sticky.
    Drivers door window needs adjust - does not retract fully. Suspect lim switch adj. Will do when do cable.

    Hopefully all above pms, and repairs provide basis for a 'few' carefree miles :)
    ………..
     
  2. J30022

    J30022 Rookie

    May 5, 2019
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    Looks like a good one to keep now.
     
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  3. Mercedes

    Mercedes Karting

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    I also have a 91 nsx the only thing done after 20 years besides regular oil changes and fluid changes.was my thermostat.its called reliability.

    Sent from my SM-A600T1 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  4. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

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    #254 one4torque, Aug 12, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
    also NOTE - none of the above items were ID on PPI with a reputable ferrari specialist racing shop...... just to add color to the 360 equation.

    so the notion of buying an already depreciated speciman and driving cost free is BS..... internet click bait. Don't get me wrong, I feel like my 360 drives are very special.... and the car gives me the fizz...... but it is not some magiacal appreciating asset that is main free.... far from it.

    and that my friends is right where the c8 pops into the discussion....... IF it performs better, and has low main costs..... and HIGH reliability........ well...... even if it's value drops in half.... perhaps the 'real' value as a super car remains high in the hands of an enthusiast.?? L)

    Cheers!
     
  5. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Karting
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    But it's not a Ferrari!!!
     
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  6. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie
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    If i'm not mistaken at the time I was asking about an S5 V8. It was the chap that told me they had just done the master cylinder on either an R8 or S5 (I don't actually recall which) but I am sure he said it applies to both because I was showing interest in an S5.

    ..and for me that actually wins it. I really do like all the pictures I've seen of this C8 though and would not be dissapointed with one I don't think. However I state categorically that my 360 is the best car I have driven shoulder to shoulder with a Gallardo. Better than my Mondial (which I really loved) and better than my F355 I had too. Better than any other car I have owned. So I am totally confident in my choice of car.
     
  7. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    History repeating itself, much of this thread was written before when the Audi R8 was announced. Didn't really impact Ferrari prices at all, just got more people interested in mid engine cars.. Actually it convinced some to step up from that point to a Ferrari after owning one for a while.

    This new car will be competition to the Audi I think much more than the 360/F430. If you want a Ferrari there is no substitute.
     
  8. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    I wonder all the time what expectations are of people in the market. So you buy an 18 year old car and expect nothing to be wrong with it? If you've been on this site, you know that people have written over and over that the PPI isn't perfect. Did you expect a new car? Everything you've written about is a component that might fail at about 20 years of age! The difference is, if and when you do sell your car to buy the Corvette (hehe).. compare the money you'll loose to other marque ownership. Better yet tell me how owning a new C7 bought last year would have done if they could sell it today.

    Maybe a Corvette is a better car for some people.. lord knows the expectations that they have...
     
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  9. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

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    VR - good points all.

    I never stated my expectations, I just listed my experience.

    If I was not a DIY person..... I'd feel much more pain.
    My friends who pay the retail price really feel the pinch.

    Whether this type of experience is a good one, I'll defer to the individual.
     
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  10. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula Junior
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    #260 KC360 FL, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
    For the life of me I cannot understand this thread, really. Is the C8 going to displace 360/430 buyers-- and now even over on the 458/488 board some suggest it may be a substitute for a 458 purchase? :confused:

    I can certainly see someone adding a C8 to their garage in addition to one of the above mentioned cars, but instead of? I'm not seeing it in any real appreciable numbers. And I'll even go further and say I really don't think anyone seriously looking at and searching for the right 360 or 430 for themselves are going to jump ship for the C8. The hype is huge for this car but... c'mon.

    The C8 will be plentiful. It will be a good car to use up and then sell on the market for a fraction, a very low fraction, of what is paid for it. They will be cool-- then soon commonplace. And I don't suggest that exclusivity is what it's all about. But I think for most buyers it will be. And that lack thereof is what will make a used C8 pretty affordable as in loss of value quickly. Anyone remember the Chevy SSR pick up truck? Cool idea but now not worth much. And the guy I know that paid $78K to be the first on the block to have one has long since dumped it for a lot less than half of what he paid for it. And that's a truck that is a rare sight on the road these days.

    All this talk of maintenance costs in relation to cost of ownership is fine with the warranty cars when new. But when the warranty is done on the C8 so will be it's resale value. When it costs almost half of what the car will be worth to repair not so minor issues, I'm guessing the cars value will go even lower. I'm not sure the person purchasing a C8 is going to be as passionate about his car as the Ferrari owner. A few sure. The Ferrari purchaser? I'm guessing quite a bit more than a few.

    The 360s and 430s are now 10 to 20 years old. Most have a value at about half of what they sold for new-- and that's with most buyers already knowing the costs to repair going in. Most willingly pay to keep their cars in top running and cosmetic condition.
    One has to ask themselves if the new mass produced C8 will be worth half of what it sold for new in 10 to 20 years. Out of warranty, I'm betting the repair cost will outweigh the desire to have the necessary repairs done on a 10 or 20 year old mid engine C8.

    So IMHO, that is where the C8 will be. A cool car that soon is everywhere and the dollar value of such cars in that scenario is not a happy place for most buyers. It will be a car to be used and then move on. Maybe it will be a track car for some. But the cost to repair will not be cheap in any event. And once the C8 is used up there's always going to be more new ones to buy from Chevrolet.
    Owning a 360 or 430 is a whole different experience. The original idea of this topic that the C8 will convince those interested and seriously considering (and not just doing hypothetical comparisons) buying a 360 or 430 are going to abandon the idea in lieu of a C8 -- well as I said, I just don't see it as the game changer for a enough folks to cause the prices of the Ferraris to be affected. It just seems silly to me.
     
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  11. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 Veteran
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    well ive been looking at 458 for last couple years and now would put c8 ahead of it. plus i would also take c8 over 360/430 (unless I wanted stick). and I cant be only one in world feeling that way.
     
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  12. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula Junior
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    What is your intended use for the C8? How long do you intend to keep it?
    Have you driven a 360/430 or 458?
    And what is the major factor that swayed you to the C8? Are you going to buy one?
     
  13. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 Veteran
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    same use as all my sports cars. daily driving weather permitting suburban ny. 3 hr highway drive to track for hpde 6 times yr. I have lots street and track driving on modern fcars. not interested in f1 trans cars. love 458 but don't see twice price over c8 for similar looks and performance. yes, status of Ferrari is real but at this stage my life not so important. im still happy with my elise but would consider c8 in couple yrs when theyre readily available. maybe consider z06 version too.
     
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  14. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Karting
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    May 25, 2019
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    I'd like everyone thinking about buying a 2001+ red gated 360 Spider to fall head over heels in love with the C8 until I get mine. After that they can come to their senses.
     
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  15. Lagunascorpio

    Lagunascorpio Karting

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    I’m one of the early commenters near the top of the thread, and I was *seriously* looking for a 430, possibly 458 but that was a reach for me.

    Yes I have driven both. 430 was fine, similar to my current C7 Z51, but I really enjoyed the 458.

    You mentioned that most F owners keep their cars in peak mechanical & aesthetic condition. Well... maybe those are the owners who aren’t *selling*, because during my long search, many of the “low miles” cars were in worse condition than my DD Z51 with 50K miles on it.

    Plus, the specs available for purchase were mostly plain & boring to me. All the good stuff seems to be hoarded away somewhere, which is frustrating.

    IF I had “FU money”, I might still consider a new or almost new 488 instead of a C8, because I’m looking for a certain minimum threshold of performance + reliability + looks that I would only just barely attain from a 430.

    As it stands, while I may not be an appreciable number, I’m fully resolved to buy a C8 *instead of* a 430 because it brings me exactly the right threshold of threshold of performance + reliability + looks (finally!), at a price that makes it a no brainer.

    I can order an exciting spec that suits my exact preferences (of course it will be more than $60K), can theoretically drive it through the 115 degree heat to Vegas or AZ anytime with the wife without fear of ending up stranded & sweltering halfway, and won’t have to come out of pocket for anything other than tires for awhile.
     
  16. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

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    Each to their own. C8 will be a great compromise. Ferrari ownership and the costs of maintenance is not for everyone.
     
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  17. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 Veteran
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    that's the thing about c8. Ferrari ownership and costs used to be for me. but now c8 (and c8 alone) is making me re think that. cars like nsx, r8, etc had no effect either. its a c8 value thing
     
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  18. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

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    I think the fcar service shops will suffer from the c8 also .
     
  19. Lagunascorpio

    Lagunascorpio Karting

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    THIS!

    I laugh when people point out that the R8 has no impact on 430 sales.

    To me... in addition to their much higher prices, the R8 is hideous and the NSX isn’t far behind that, looks-wise, so 1/3 of my performance + reliability + appearance threshold was out the window from the start.
     
  20. Albert Penello

    Jul 21, 2019
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    It's going to have some impact, without a doubt. Question is - how much.

    Own a 360 Modena, 911, Corvettes - I have the gambit. Ferrari is in another class for sure, but once these things hit the used market @ $40K - $50K you're going to be looking at a hell of a reliable used car with gobs of power and good looks for half the price of a used Ferrari. It will be a lot faster with more features to boot.

    In the short term I see this affecting mid-tier sports cars like the Supra, NSX, GTR (poor Nissan) because it's a hell of a deal and the cars have a history of reliability and good utility, with lower maintenance costs and less demand to prove the provenance of your maintenance history.

    But yeah I do expect 360's and 430's to see a small hit in a few years if these are as good as people are hoping they are.
     
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  21. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 Veteran
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    McLaren is the company that I feel will take the biggest hit bc they don't have the history of Ferrari or lambo
     
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  22. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    A C8 reminds me in many ways of the Nissan GT-R. The people's hero punching well above its weight and price point. When launched the GT-R took scalps everywhere but in my opinion no matter how good the C8 is it isn't even on McLaren's radar and neither will a C8 be for majority of McLaren buyers, just like the GT-R wasn't and isn't. It may be complementary purchase but not a instead of one.

    McLaren's are depreciating faster than competitor Ferrari's for a completely different set of complex reasons not really related to history or prestige. They have the history and the prestige, their technology is phenomenal. McLaren cars are absolutely fantastic with their low weight, carbon tubs, trick suspension and engines capable of 1,000hp. Technology wise they are actually ahead in many areas, however they haven't got everything right...far from it.

    I think they have been dropped the ball on how they addressed social media and let silly issues get blown out of perspective, many of which are just click bate without real substance. Where I do have criticism though is with the way they decided to structure the used car side of the business (or lack of). Selling a year old car with virtually no miles on should be cakewalk, especially if upgrading within the brand, on a Ferrari your fine, on a McLaren you'll get stung. A lot of this is to do with how used cars in dealers are managed and its very poorly thought out.

    Also quite simply a specialist network to care for the cars doesn't exist, Period and this is hurting residuals the most. While that may not matter to new car buyers for the second hand market it is really big thing to help keep costs manageable. Not everyone wants to service their car or be forced to service at a Main dealer with fancy multi million dollar show rooms and $20 latte's added onto your bill indirectly. This is especially so if customers have been used to using an excellent independent specialist to take care of their Ferrari for years. Furthermore the overly aggressive pricing of some parts is ridiculous, sometimes twice or 3 times the price of Ferrari equivalent parts with no justifiable reasons. So yes, McLaren have issues (most resolvable if they put in the effort) but their product is very advanced and having said all of this I voted with my feet and own one despite all of the pain.
     
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  23. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn Rookie

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    When you are in the market for a super car, how much of your decision is based on dumb emotions?

    If I’m being 100percent honest:

    I bought a 360 just for a gated transmission and an engine encased in glass.

    A c8 won’t affect Ferrari sales. Who Buys a used Ferrari on any factor other than emotions and emotions are what they are?

    And no car can scratch the itch caused by another car.
     
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  24. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Picture the scene a decade ago,

    Saved up for years, I want a Ferrari... I just happen to walk into the Nissan dealer and get offered to drive the new GT-R. Whats this? It blows the mind, much faster than it has any right to be for the price point. Everyday usability, speed that just isn't available anywhere else.

    Do I;
    1. Buy it right away and cancel the 458 order
    2. Buy it right away and use it everyday, 458 stays on order.
    3. Appreciate it, respect it but still just buy the 458..
    4. Say interesting but no thanks, I'm waiting for a 458...
    5. Cancel the 458 and buy something even faster to counter threat of the GT-R.

    Everyone will have different reasons for their conclusions.

    Fast forward to today, the C8 makes much less sense outside of the US, I don't even know if there are any dealers anywhere in EU at all...?! On home ground i am sure they will be popular.

    Good luck to them, whether its conquests from people who set their mind of a Ferrari is another matter. Time will tell. Certainly going to be different story outside of the US.
     
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  25. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    This is what it reminds me of as well. Right now you have a lot of everyone's ideal expectations mixing into things. It's going to be fast and reliable and nimble and sexy and appealing... a first time mid-engine car with significant horsepower for GM. If they don't dial in the suspension or the suspension has quirks, it's going to mean a lot of body work. Everything is great in warranty (even with the 360 and 430) but once it goes out of warranty and the owner has to pay I'm wondering if an engine out is going to be needed. Then in addition to the cost of that alone, will assembly errors by mechanics decrease reliability after an engine out. We don't know yet.
    At the beginning of a relationship everything looks like a rose.
     
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