The C8 and future Ferrari sales?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by Nachtfalter, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. J30022

    J30022 Rookie

    May 5, 2019
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    Jeff P
    If used C8s are going for $30k in 2023, you'll see this same thread in the Mondial section!
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  2. Eric C

    Eric C F1 Rookie
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    Mar 20, 2009
    St. Louis, MO
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    I can't understand how you guys think that's pretty. Nothing flows and it looks like they threw together a mismatch of styling cues from current exotics and called it their own. It's a poser car in my opinion.
  3. cole328

    cole328 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2014
    It's a vette.....nuff said I personally wouldn't even put them in the same sentence.
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  4. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Rookie
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  5. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula Junior
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    I’ll throw myself in as a case study/example to this question.

    My whole life I wanted a Ferrari. Went through some other cars as my income increased. Finally got to a point where I could comfortably buy a used one. Bounced around 355, 360, 430. When I actually had the money ready, I suddenly realized other options, and at one point I did consider (even test drove the C7). I used to be the “I’m not a corvette guy” person, but the C7 has now made me seriously consider getting one (still considering it). Anyway, I ultimately purchased an F430. I had to fulfill the dream, otherwise risk regret (something I try not to have). That wasn’t all, the F cars provide a more visceral experience. For example, driving a 911s followed by my buddy’s 458 was incomparable. Additionally, if I have to drive an automatic, I actually prefer the characteristics of the F1 transmission to the C7’s auto or these new DCT’s such as the 458 and newer vehicles.

    So here’s the catch. I’ve been anxiously awaiting to see what the C8 would be, with high hopes. Assuming the driving experience is positive, I no longer feel the need to upgrade my Ferrari. Whereas I was previously thinking of trading up to a 458, I’ll now do one of two things. Either I will trade my F430 for the C8 to gain peace of mind and greater capability for road trips and extended driving time (+ targa top!), or I will pay off the F430 and add the C8. More than likely it will be an addition than a trade since every time I drive the F430 its rawness makes it a joy to drive.

    This must mean something. I don’t think it will affect first time Ferrari buyers, but I certainly think it will become an option for those who have already experienced Ferrari when deciding on whether to upgrade or replace. It’s not going to change the 1%er’s buying decisions, but upper middle class or top 10% income earners may be in play.

    Sent from my iPad using mobile app
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  6. Nachtfalter

    Nachtfalter Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2012
  7. Zack Hawker

    Zack Hawker Karting

    Feb 27, 2018
    Paradise Valley, Az
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    Zack Az Realtor
    I have had a c5 and 4 c6's with the last being a zr1. So I am a vette guy I guess. Maybe it was the best performance I could get for my budget. I drove 3 c7 z06's (manual) before I paid more than double the price and picked up a gated f430. The c7z06 was just another vette. Amazing machine but lacked the emotions and feeling. A ferrari is a driving experience like no other and true "car guys/gals" will see the differance. The fact that they dont offer the c8 in a manual is absolutely ridiculous. What is this automatic world coming to???. But I guess thats good news for the gated guys out there. I still feel the c8 is a hell of a machine for the money. If there was a manual option I would at least be taking one for a test drive.
  8. ILuv4Res

    ILuv4Res F1 Veteran
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    Aug 8, 2002
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    Yes and no......

    1) The starting point of the Vette is 60k, but that is for a sub 500HP version. I am sure additional options once the car is launched will push the price up considerably. Even past models from a regular Vette up to the ZR1 had a big difference in pricing.

    2) Initially, the Vette will be the new and exciting car - and that has happened a few times with various cars. Initially, people want the new car, but once it is out for a bit it will become another mass-produced Vette. The Ferrari always holds the distinction of being unique and exotic.

    3) There is the assumption that the new Vette is a great car - the real test will be once actual customers take delivery and they are in use, to see if/how they perform and are received.

    4) A Ferrari is a Ferrari...... Over the years, there have always been cars that could be substituted or compared. But, the panache, status, emotions, and pedigree can't be duplicated. No real car enthusiast is going to confuse a Vette with a Ferrari. Both cars are aspirational purchases, but the Vette is geared towards an aspiration that is achievable by the masses, whereas the Ferrari stands at a different level.

    5) Value and resale.....I suspect that once the initial 'buzz' of the Vette wears off, it will be like all other Vettes that depreciate like a rock. Even if the Vette initially takes some Buyers, I suspect that longer term the Ferrari will hold its value longer.

    6) The pricing on a new Ferrari continues to rise, so older Ferrari's hold value. When new, the 360 spider was a $200k car vs a 488 spider which is roughly a $400k car. It costs more to get into the Ferrari stables, and the people who want a Ferrari either pony up for a new car or they buy preowned. The rise in new prices keep the preowned market strong for good cars.

    7) I feel that most of the drag on Ferrari prices is from other exotic brands, not the Vette. For example, Lambo, McLaren, and other exotic marques have come a long way in recent years, and have provided other exotic alternatives to buyers. I believe the Vette is a much smaller alternative group and smaller risk for Ferrari than other exotic brands.

    8) Tell someone you have a Vette and they say 'congratulations', tell someome you have a Ferrari and they come unglued......

    Time will tell......
  9. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
    Paris / Chicago
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    Andrew Menasce
    There are people who want a Ferrari but these same people might also want other cars. And now they have another option so yes, it will impact the 360/355/430 market. A lot of people with $60k/$80k/$100k are shopping around many brands.

    So these people will now have one more choice, and one that is apparently as fast as the current Ferrari for 30% of the price. With a warranty and an extensive dealer network.
  10. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2017
    Melbourne Florida
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    I have to think that you are either a Vette guy or you are not. It's no secret that the earlier iterations of the Corvette (C6,C7) were a "good buy". They truly maxed out the HP for the money thing.
    But I still don't believe a guy who has an interest in an older Ferrari looking at this new C8 as a viable alternative. The word pedigree does come to mind. And I think it counts. I still remember the Vettes at Sebring bringing up the rear year after year. And while I can appreciate the newer Vettes, the amount of plastic and ill fitments have always been a sticking point.

    I'm sure they will sell well. But as mentioned by some here, they will not hold value very well. To some buyers, being first on the block to have one means more to them than the imminent depreciation.

    So to address the OP's question: I really don't think there many who are considering a 360 or a 430 Ferrari that would do an about face and plunk down a deposit on a C8. It's just simply apples to oranges.

    It's kinda like the guy in high school that put a V8 into a VW bug. Was it cheaper than Boss 302? Sure. Was it faster than a Challenger? Maybe. But it was still a VW no matter how you slice it.
  11. 02360spider

    02360spider Formula Junior

    May 27, 2015
    I wonder if they put a access panel behind the seats for serivce? Watching a couple videos looks like solid aluminum behind the seats? Will this be a engine out service car lol.

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  12. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
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    I think Ferrari will always be super special cars, so their value will unlikely be hurt by the Corvette C8 !!
  13. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3
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    Apr 27, 2010
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    Regardless, generally speaking, these are different buyers. A Corvette is "just" a Corvette, but a Ferrari is a Ferrari. Nothing against Corvette. I actually have a C7 Z06.
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  14. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    I agree as I'm a Ferrari owner and not a Corvette owner. My original post (not the one you quoted) is really about "branding" and how the economy we're living in has made luxury brands raise prices through the roof for products that aren't all that great and are easily knocked off. This new Corvette is a great example. Does it cost Ferrari so much more to build a 488 than it does Chevrolet to build this new Corvette?

    I think brands are bastardizing themselves. Of course I'd be selling all I could in the good times if I were them too. But long term I think that comes at the cost of allowing other brands to enter your market at a lower price. The technology to replicate quality and performance is there. China can make a LV bag just as good as the Europeans. So much so I think all the real ones are being made in China. I think the same goes for cars. All cars are basically the same to me nowadays. When I get a loaner Benz to me it has the same build quality as the Nissan Altima rental I got from Hertz the week before. They're all using the same tech to make their products. Might as well pump them all out of the same factory in India and just change the name plate. This new C8 Vette is a perfect example. Is it as "nice" as a 488? No, of course not. Is the 488 5.5X nicer than the C8? No.... not IMO.
    VAF84 likes this.
  15. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    Charleston, SC
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    I suspect there is a finer line between quality and mediocre than ever before. True, the door locks in the 360 are same as a Fiat Panda. True, the radiator fans are from a BMW and the coils and MAFs share similarity with other cars...

    However, the aluminum shift gate in my car is a solid block of aluminum. Not plastic, aluminum. The door handles are cast aluminum, the carpets held in with screws and not plastic rivets that crack. While you have some parts equivalence, what I admire most about my 360 is I can disassemble things and they don't break when I fix them. I've had cars like my RX-7 that had the plastic literally break when I tried to replace a part. Screws that held in the fuel pump were phillips head and not hex bolts. They of course, rounded, when I tried to replace the fuel pump. I'll take my 20 year old Ferrari to many cars for actual component quality.

    All manufacturers cheapen the car to make a profit. When it's new, it sounds perfect. Later in life that profit incentive results in squeaks and plastic that cracks. This GM product I suspect will be no different than others. GM makes their profit on volume and on lesser interior component quality. I'm a believer in you get what you pay for, you pay for what you get.
  16. Lagunascorpio

    Lagunascorpio Karting

    Dec 9, 2012
    Southern CA
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    Bryan L
    While I currently own a C7 Z51 and I’ve longed/aspired for decades to own a Ferrari or Lamborghini for performance & symbolic reasons, I don’t consider myself to be a “vette guy” or a “ferrari guy”.

    I’m an “exotic car” guy.

    For me to take interest, a car’s looks & performance must rise above a certain threshold. Until now, that threshold was only available in a 430/Gallardo/Huracan, and that was very frustrating. The “best I could do” in my price range was the C7.

    I’ve recently arrived at a place in life where I could buy a 430 or Gallardo... but I waited to see what the C8 was going to be.

    Yes a Ferrari *could* hold its value better than the C8 if I stuffed it in my garage and never drove it. I’m a driver, however, and I intend to drive the crap out of my “exotic”.

    I’m thrilled that a domestic brand FINALLY created a reliable, affordable vehicle with aesthetics & performance that easily rival a Ferrari.

    I am now fully resolved to buy a C8 instead of a 430 or Gallardo. Just made a deposit today.

    Judge me :)
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  17. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2009
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    I would be more conflicted if they had a stick shift option. I like the car but I want more to do when I am trying to drive within the limits of my ability and the reality of the roads today. I like the idea that there may be many available and affordable aftermarket parts depending on how this thing goes but I wouldn't feel any shame with a nice warranty. I want to learn more about the serviceability before I put down my final opinion though. If it's stupid simple then I need to have a real think about it. Sure any Chevy dealer "might" be able to service it, but would you really want that?
  18. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
    San Antonio, TX
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    #43 brookliner7, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    I was thinking about this topic as well...unless you are in the business selling/trading Ferrari's this is more of just fun conversation and not of worry/concern.

    Let me preface my bias as I've owned several corvettes including a C7 with a warranty, and despite my mechanical repairs with my 360 I'd never trade it back for a moment.

    I really don't see Ferrari prices going anywhere...

    I was thinking about all the amazing front engine V8 coupes out there...M4, M6, AMG Merc, Jaguar, even the C7 Z06...but none of these hurt the sales, price, or desirability of the California(+/- T)

    People want what they want...

    If you're wanting a cheap car with a warranty, has decent power, looks good, Corvette fits the bill. I might buy down the road used for a track car.

    But if you are wanting a "special car" with low production/rarity/brand equity then the corvette line will never be able to compete with any Ferrari, no matter where they put the engine.

    These same ideas like brand equity, is how luxury brands can stay in business, such as Rolex, AP, JLC. Sure...the iWatch can measure a menstrual cycle and run an EKG and calculate your exact distance from the sun at any given second all's superior to a Rolex in every way including accuracy, and it's $400...but people still buy Rolex.

    So, you want an iWatch or a Rolex? A corvette or a Ferrari? People want that they want...and I think I'm in good company here.

    Cheers mates
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  19. Lagunascorpio

    Lagunascorpio Karting

    Dec 9, 2012
    Southern CA
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    Bryan L
    #44 Lagunascorpio, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    Yep. I totally get you, and that is the exact analogy I had been using with my friends... right up until I finally saw the actual C8.

    Where that analogy breaks down for me a bit is:

    Imagine, you can only practically possess 1 watch, and there is no alternative way to get those features the iWatch provides (i.e. the iPhone and computers, etc. don’t exist, and ONLY the iWatch offers all that cool stuff).

    Do you still buy the Rolex and forego all that cool stuff just because you crave it’s arguably superficial appeal?

    I bought & wear a Rolex because I already have all those cool tech features on my iPhone & computer. I’m not missing out on anything by choosing to wear the Rolex. I have the best of both worlds.

    Practically speaking, I only have room in my life for 1 vehicle. For me, the arguably superficial aspects of the Ferrari brand are simply not enough to override what would be lacking in all other respects.

    I never imagined I could relinquish my desire for those brands, but the combined C8 aesthetic + performance + tech + affordability is finally at a level that allows me to do that.
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  20. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
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    If it was only about numbers then maybe, but there´s that thing called emotions too and a Vette will never be close to a Ferrari in that respect. Having said that i love the C6, the C8 does not do anything for me. Generic supercar looks.
    Phil~ likes this.
  21. Lagunascorpio

    Lagunascorpio Karting

    Dec 9, 2012
    Southern CA
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    Bryan L
    Fair enough... but that very statement helps drive my basic point.

    For the very first time, the term “supercar” (although I prefer exotic) can finally be used to describe this affordable, reliable domestic-built platform.

    I’ll take it.

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  22. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
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    Actually, i regarded both the C6 and the C7 as supercars already.
  23. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Jun 3, 2011
    virginia usa
    I dont think the C8 affects the 360/430 at all .. However I think it may affect the 488 market as with the 488 we have lost that special ferrari sound which i think in the long run will cause those and later Turbo cars to depreciate faster and a car like the C8 for say 80k and non turbo power looks pretty good to me.. I will likely buy one just cause i have always like corvettes and have owned many prior to the C7...was never a fan of the
    C7 I also like the F8 but wish it was not a turbo car .....
    In general corvette buyers are not ferrari buyers but this is a whole new thing being mid engined with such a reasonable price at a time when ferrari has decided to continually offer less value for the money...
  24. espvh

    espvh Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2005
    #49 espvh, Jul 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    Addressing the OP's question, will the new Corvette affect future used Ferrari sales, I believe yes. If someone enters the the market today with $60-80k to spend on a high performance car, he has more options......the monies that could have been spent on a 20+ year old Ferrari, now may go a brand new mid engine Corvette with a warranty, thus leaving more mid engine Ferrari's, 348/355/360/430, on the table, possibly lowering the and demand. Also, the 2019 mid engine NSX MSRP was just cut last week by $20k.
  25. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
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    Would you trade your Ferrari 360 for a C8? Most people that buy old maintenance intensive Ferraris buy them because they want them. Otherwise they could have got Porsches for example.
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