355 - the cabin blower turns on by itself at maximum speed when engine is running | Page 2 | FerrariChat

355 the cabin blower turns on by itself at maximum speed when engine is running

Discussion in '348/355' started by evo11, Apr 30, 2023.

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  1. evo11

    evo11 Karting

    Sep 21, 2020
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    symptoms again. After starting the engine, the blower runs at maximum speed and it does not matter what position the potentiometer is in, because the blower does not respond to the potentiometer at all.

    and this is test instruction for blower power transistor? correct?

    1. Disconnect both connectors from the fan speed controller; jumper terminals 2 & 3 together (large female spades, these are in the negative side of the fan) in the connector (the loom side); switch the ignition "on" - if the fan runs full speed, proceed to test 2.; if it doesn't, you have problem either with the incoming power supply to the positive side of the fan or with grounding of the wire of pin 3.

    2. If the fan runs full speed in test 1., connect the large connector back to the speed controller (small disconnected); connect a wire to pin 6 of the controller and another wire to a +12V source in the car's wiring; switch the ignition "on"; hold the exposed ends (~10 mm) of the two mentioned wires at 3-5 mm distance (do not allow them to touch each other) between your slightly wet fingers; with light squeeze, the fan should start turning slowly and faster with more squeeze (the controller is good); if the fan does not start running at slow speed, squeeze the wires hard; if the fan still does not run or suddenly starts at full speed, the fan speed controller is bad.

    If you determine that the fan controller is good, then you need to go to the AC ECU.
     
  2. evo11

    evo11 Karting

    Sep 21, 2020
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    can you present from further perspective please?
     
  3. PhilB

    PhilB Formula 3
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  4. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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  5. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    It's in one of two places.

    If you have a Bosch braking system, it's here, next to the right hand frunk latch:

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    If you have a Teves braking system, it's here, closer to the cabin bulkhead/behind the Teves multicoloured ABS relays:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    (EDIT: Disregard... I see you've already found it).
     
  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    As you've already discovered, you pull on the black clip which is saddling the yellow plug.
     
  8. evo11

    evo11 Karting

    Sep 21, 2020
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    Thanks for your help !
     
  9. evo11

    evo11 Karting

    Sep 21, 2020
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  10. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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  11. Zamboniman308

    Zamboniman308 Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2020
    504
    Chicago IL
    I'll just stay it. It won't help you but the entire HVAC system on these is rubbish. From the ECU, to the motors, gears, heater valve.. junk all of it. There I feel better.
     
  12. Zamboniman308

    Zamboniman308 Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2020
    504
    Chicago IL
    You may need to replace IC number 2 within the ECU to fix this. I'm not 100% sure since I haven't had to reverse engineer the blower motor circuit yet on mine, but I suspect that could be the issue. It takes specialized surface mount soldering equipment and know how to replace. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The control panel uses a basic resistor network. It's not likely to fail. Either the driver chip in the ECU has failed or another component in the fan speed controller has failed. The guys who refurbish the fan speed controllers professionally, do mention this.

    Driver chips here:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/144810828/

    I wouldn't recommend replacing it yourself without some practice. Some folks recommend a product called "Chipquik SMD1" to help desolder the chip without special chip desolder tools. It helps distribute and hold heat in the chip legs. I've used it on smaller chip, but I'm not sure I would attempt these larger chips without special tools.

    Regarding the chips, you might want to fit some heatsinks

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WR3S8CZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
     
  14. Zamboniman308

    Zamboniman308 Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2020
    504
    Chicago IL
    I have a hot air soldering station. I used a combo that and a traditional iron to get it all done. I wouldn't try it without both on hand. I agree if not familiar with this type of work you need to practice as it's a bit of an art to do properly and not do more damage. There are practice board kits pretty cheep though. I can't remember exactly since it's been so long but basically I was able to lift the IC off carefully and patiently. Then you'll need solder removing braid to clean up the board used together with an traditional soldering iron. Once everything is cleaned up nice, resolder the new chip with paste and the hot air station.

    Oh you'll need to clean the potting material coating off the area first. That's a messy job.
     
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  15. lanab

    lanab Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2016
    524
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Remember mine? some previous owner put an potentiometer inside the panel to control fan speed, probably it was the ECU that was at fault from the start.
    I had a nightmare fixing the system but it works now, i replaced the power transistor, control panel, and repaired the ECU and also replaced the whole cable that went from the control panel to the ECU as previous owner cut it in several places to bypass the ECU for fan control.
     
  16. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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    Unfortunately nothing has changed but I found this during today test

     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Bizarre. So you know your control panel and your fan speed regulator works... sometimes.

    What differences are there between engine running and engine not running? How does the HVAC ECU know the engine is running?

    1) There is an orange/white wire going from the HVAC ECU to the Motronic ECU. There was a pinout for the ECU posted on the forum. I don't know how accurate it was (I noticed some errors), but pin 69 (5.2 car) was labelled "Orange White AC Turned On". To me, that only sounds one-way communication. Under hard acceleration on the F355, does the AC cut out? I know my Lotus Esprit had this feature.

    2) Also, the HVAC ECU tells the Motronic ECU that the AC compressor has been commanded on (via a relay), but that communication is definitely only one way. The Motronic ECU can't send data back to the HVAC ECU in the opposite direction.

    3) There is a wire coming from the ignition key telling the ECU that the car is being started. On earlier cars, there was direct wiring. On later cars with a start relay, the wiring goes via a start relay. There would have to be some sort of memory function in the HVAC ECU to

    I did notice yesterday on my car that when I turned on the ignition, the fan seemed to have a mind of its own. I recall a delay before the fans started. I can't recall button settings and sequences though.
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I had a look at the original Bosch Motronic diagram (in German) ... and the HVAC ECU internals look like this:

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    Klimabereitschaft translates as "climate readiness". Looking at the symbology, it does look like the HVAC ECU is telling the Motronic ECU something and not the other way around.

    The '69' is referring to the Motronic ECU pin it is attached to.
     
  19. Zamboniman308

    Zamboniman308 Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2020
    504
    Chicago IL
    When i was trouble shooting my heater valve i was chasing my tail and only after car was started would it change positions.. key on engine off wasnt enough.
     
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  20. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    We just have to figure out how the system knows the engine is running :p

    And can it be simulated.
     
  21. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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  22. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Ouch. Expensive fix.

    Thanks for the follow-up
     
  23. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Did the repair company tell you what they replaced in the ECU. My car is now doing the very same thing. The fan only changes speed on the last few speed settings.
     
  24. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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    I took one from second car to confirm this is it. But its not repaired yet.
    I found company in Warsaw dealing with all sort of ecus, controllers for 30 years.
    Will call them on Monday.
     
  25. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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    Of course will let you know all the details when fixed
     
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