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The California is starting to "grow" on me!

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by RTB, Aug 14, 2009.

  1. RTB

    RTB Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2006
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    Sometimes the photos in the magazines and on the internet just don't help!

    Just ask Keith Richards, Hugh Grant, Britney, etc.....and the 360 Modena, which never looked stunning in 2D.

    And I think that it's the same for the California.

    I have always thought that the "package" was great (front engine, V8, 2+2, folding hardtop, etc), but not the styling.

    However, the more I see the car in the flesh, and the more I put that look in the context of the "package", the more I like it!

    For sure, there'll be more of them than the 458 Italia, but this is not a "VolksFerrari"!
     
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  3. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    but it is a MaserAri, and that will always be a sticking point for me. Ferraris are supposed to be thoroughbreds, and a badge-engineered Maserati isn't a thoroughbred.
     
  4. AJ

    AJ Formula 3

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    I still haven't seen one in person but, from the pictures I have seen, I think it looks good in white. Rik, have you driven the California?
     
  5. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 TheMayor, Aug 15, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
    Why do people keep saying this thing is a Maserati? It's designed by Ferrari, engineered by Ferrari, powered with their engine, and built in their assembly line right next to other Ferrari's. Maserati isn't even part of the same company now and hasn't for several years. How much "more" Ferrari can it get?

    Geez... if you want to pick on something, go back and start the old "a Dino is really a Fiat" argument. At least that has more credibility.
     
  6. MGD416

    MGD416 Formula 3

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    and its engineered damn well
     
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  8. Forexpreneur

    Forexpreneur Formula Junior

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    I don't get it. What is wrong with Maserati? Excellent and beautiful cars (current model range). The Granturismo is the most gorgeous car out there right now in my opinion. If the Cali truly was designed as a Maser in the begining, who cares?
     
  9. isuk

    isuk Formula 3

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    #7 isuk, Aug 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hard to deny that the Cali started life as a Maserati when you see the physical evidence. Look at the roof line, especially the point at which it opens between the top and rear screen, and compare the approximate door length and rear wheel position to see that the architecture and overall dimensions of both cars are the same. One thing that Maserati did better was where their roof met the A pillar. On their car it appears to be a more harmonious curve. On the California the A pillar is almost a straight line that abutts somewhat awkwardly onto the curve of the roof panel.
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  10. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

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    The reality is that all modern Maseratis are badge engineered Ferraris.
     
  11. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    Very strong statement and certainly has merit in as far as mechanicals are concerned but I highly doubt the platform on which the GranTourismo is built was orignally meant to be a Ferrari.
     
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  13. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

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    what are those pics... where are they from? of the wrecked convertible Maser thing on blocks? interesting.

    even if the Cali is a stillborn Maser "really" then it's not really one anymore, being built and engineered by Ferrari.
     
  14. isuk

    isuk Formula 3

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    #11 isuk, Aug 15, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
    The pics were taken at the Maserati factory a year ago and posted on Autogespot. At that point it was thought the car was going to be the new Maserati convertible. Since then It's been confirmed that the new Maserati convertible will be a 4 seat soft top version of the Gran Turismo. Pics of this new Maserati have been shown to some dealers I'm reliably informed. The Maserati in the pictures would have been the replacement for the 4200 spyder as a sportier 2+2 as opposed to the full four seater GranTurismo which is due to debut at Geneva next year.
     
  15. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

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    yes the entire roof and greenhouse and width of the car looks the same as the California.

    how is the company structured now? I've lost track. Does Fiat still own everything or has Ferrari split away from them again?

    If Fiat owns them all, Alfa, Maser, Ferrari, then it would make sense under that structure that the cars share things, like how Buick, Pontiac, Chevrolet are all GM cars sharing the same parts.

    Maser and Alfa have Ferrari-derived engines in them. And even back in the day, the Fiat Dinos were (eventually) assembled in the Ferrari plant.

    The thing is, the front/nose of the car you pictured, the wrecked "mule," looks better than the front face of the Ferrari California. I mean, the Cali looks ok, but the Maser front end of the wrecked prototype is better looking.
     
  16. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

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    Regardless of the intended brand, this entire car was developed by Ferrari from the ground up - chassis, engine, transmission, interior ergonomics - it all came from Ferrari and the major elements were constructed by Ferrari. This car has always been a Ferrari. To say anything else is incorrect.
     
  17. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 GuyIncognito, Aug 15, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
    I think "intended brand" means a lot more at this end of the marketplace. This isn't a Camry being turned into a Lexus, it's a Maserati being turned into a Ferrari.
     
  18. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

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    But what he is saying, perhaps, is that Ferrari is the one who engineered the "Maserati" prototype to begin with. So if anything is true it is that the car was a Ferrari-engineered Maserati badge, not a Maser-engineered car. And in the end, for whatever marketing purposes, they chose to just make it into the next Ferrari.

    The engines are Ferrari-derived anyway, which the heart and soul of the car.
     
  19. isuk

    isuk Formula 3

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    Maserati is still owned by Fiat. It used to be grouped under Ferrari outside of Fiat Auto but within Fiat spa, the parent group. Under that arrangement Ferrari were given responsibility to assist Maserati with developing cars to bring to market and assist with their sales and distribution network, hence the reason why Ferrari dealers also became agents for Maserati. The additional volume brought benefits to Ferrari in terms of component sharing and greater control over quality from suppliers.

    Following a change in structure Maserati was brought back into the Fiat Auto group and placed in a division alongside Alfa Romeo. It was at this point I belive that the "Maserati" hard top convertible project was taken back by Ferrari and turned into the California.

    Maserati has it's own engineers and testing facilities in Modena and has invested a considerable amount of money in a new assembly facility there in recent years.
     
  20. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

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    So the "F149" project was probably under the supervision of Ferrari anyway, but then brought fully into Ferrari's purview upon the restructuring. So there is some grain of truth to the idea that this car was originally a Maser, albeit under Ferrari's discretion. Ferrari simply took over the project fully and made it a Ferrari instead.

    If it was engineered then by Ferrari once it was fully taken over, with it's chassis and engine under the Ferrari team, then saying it is merely a badge-engineered Ferrari only, being a Maser underneath, is not entirely true? I'm just asking to see if what I'm understanding is true. So much controversy exists about this whole issue.

    I wish there was a definitive chronological breakdown written up as a series of articles by Ferrari insiders so we could see how this car really came to be. From the pics of the derelict Maser test mule, it does appear that the car was clearly going to be a Maserati. And by the way I like the California and am not of the hater position. I'm just seeking answers.

    I guess the question is how much of the Maser test mule's monocoque was re-engineered completely under Ferrari?
     
  21. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran
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    After seeing the 458, the Cali really looks like the low-end model that it is..
     
  22. PA Wolfpacker

    PA Wolfpacker Formula Junior

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    If you are referring to looks alone how does the 599 look? Several people I have spoken with feel the Cali looks like the 599.
     
  23. agrun

    agrun Formula Junior

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    oh, grow up. you have no facts to back that up
     
  24. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    One could make the argument that anything post 1968 is an overpriced Fiat. And as far as badge engineering, if anyone thinks this is the first time, you may want to read up on Ferrari's 1956 Grand Prix entry.
     
  25. agrun

    agrun Formula Junior

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    if you really believe that, you are on the wrong website. if you truly believe that nothing past 1968 is worthy, you might consider posting just on Porsche website, with all that VW heritage.

    Ferrari would have been long dead and gone, if it failed to collaborate, while still maintaining its own identity. they have done a better job than any other company. look at Lambo. german parts from audi, assembled in italy. aston martin through jaguar and Ford. bentley and and range rover through BMW and Ford. thes companies would have been done. instead they are fine, and ferrari exceeds all of them in terms of desirability.

    the true purist would only be left to eulogize, rather than drive the car. the california is a spectacular car with remarkable innovations, some borrowed, some old, some blue, who cares, b/c we get to drive it
     
  26. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran
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    #23 Argento839, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
    Let me give you a fact: that's called a subjective opinion.
     
  27. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran
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    #24 Argento839, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
    The 458 looks much more impressive than the 430 IMO and so it really leaves the Cali down at the bottom...IMO. What would you rather have a 458 or a Cali? Yep that's what I thought :)

    I don't think the Cali is ugly it is just that it is not as awesome looking as anything else Ferrari is putting out... The Cali is what it is: its the least expensive Ferrari and it shows...IMO.
     
  28. PA Wolfpacker

    PA Wolfpacker Formula Junior

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    I hate to disappoint you but I prefer the Cali. Nothing wrong with the 458, but I need a GT not a sports car.

    It is intresting all of the negativity towards the Cali. It is almost like it stole something from those that can't accept it for what it is, a GT and a damn fine one at that. IMHO.
     

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