The continued Saga of the '87 Testarossa...

Who is the mechanic? Those numbers don't make sense. The compression is extremely low...I though 150-180 was closer to normal...

I haven't heard of anyone on this board ever having the rings and valves done, unless the belt ripped. Then we are talking 50,000$ or so...

If those numbers are real, then the car is worth about 2-3000$ more than a car with a busted belt. Figure, high teens, very low twenties.

I can't imagine that taking the motor out, and doing the rings/valves (best case scenario) would be less than 30,000$ Though I would love to hear from a real mechanic...

Has anyone done this DIY? What would the parts cost be? Then again, do you want a car with an engine rebuild by a DIYer?

If the car runs ok, buy it for 20,000$, don't fix anything, and enjoy...when it finally goes, sell it for parts....

 

Who at LFSC did it?

How much did THEY tell you it would cost to fix? What was their opinion on the car??? Was it a consignment car???

I just don't see how you can have 100-120 psi compression and a 6% leakdown in the same cylinder...unless its a lawnmower with a low compresion ratio to start with...

Oh, and with the cats, aftermarket ones are 1500$ or so for the pair. Or, you can go cheap, add some 200$ ones to test with, and then take them right off...

Isn't this the car that is 58,000$ asking price, 50,000 miles? Give more details on the car... For what its worth, I have seen 50,000 mile tesatrossa die a slow sales death even when priced in the mid/low 40's... This sounds like a 20,000$ car...

 

Check with GT CAR PARTS IN AZ for used precats then call Ricambi America 336-499-2500 for Hyperflo Cats and a X-ost MAranello muffler.

 

If you buy it I have my exhaust from my 1990 TR with only 12000 miles on it boxed and ready to sell.

 

James, I bought my 87 from LFSC, 2 years ago. I think it looks great, had 9000 MILES ON IT, recent bills for 20,000$ plus service, and I got it for very low 50's. Also a one owner.

An 87 with 50,000 miles on it is not worth ANYWHERE NEAR 58,000. Ask LFSC what they would give you if you decided you don't like the car, and wanted to trade it in, in 6 months. If the car was in great mechanical shape, they might offer 40,000$. With engine problems, they would give you zilch. Take their trade in value and add 5000-7000$ to it, and you have full retail.

Henryk on this board had an 88 for sale, with 50,000 miles. Best trade in price he could get was 30,000$ or so...do a search under his name and testarossa...

If you paid them for a PPI, they have an obligation to tell you what they think of the motor. I know they don't want to upset the customer, but they did agree to a ppi. If the car is sh*t, they should say so... it's their LEGAL obligation. You aren't paying them for some numbers, you are paying for AN OPINION.

 

FWIW I just purchased mine in the Chicago area 2 owner, orig window sticker, and all receipts 22K miles for 61K.

 

My gut is that the car needs an Italian tune-up. It needs to be driven HARD for 100 miles then rechecked.

Regarding price: seems a bit high if the engine issues are sorted out, price is excessive if it needs serious work.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Just eavesdropping here, but if my checkbook was involved I would probably go for a car more like sparta49's.

Even if the car's immaculate, most of the value in a Testarossa is in the engine bay, and if you're going to be sinking serious money into engine work you'll be buried alive at the price you mentioned. As of 2006, a TR with more than 50,000 miles is considered high mileage based on what I've seen -- and I've been casually looking, because I may move from a 328 to a TR at some point and want to know what's out there.

If it's a rare color and you have to have it, and you're awash in cash, that could change the equation.

My two lira. Good luck, I'm sure you'll figure it out and make the right decision.

 

My white/red car also has a tan trunk...go figure...

 

mine is red/tan with a black trunk. wanna trade for that tan trunk?????? just kidding

 

Did they just use whatever color they had? Most of the testarossas I have seen had tan trunks...irregardless of exterior color...go figure...

 

Bo has given some really good advice however I disagree with one thing - A complete running testarossa isnt worth less than 40k- sorry but it just isnt no matter what the mileage. Just as a point of reference, a white salvage titled with a lot of stories and damage just sold on ebay for 31K. I am sure the car James is looking at is better than that one. Keep in mind, if a dealer is throwing out a 30k number they think it is worth 10K more.

 

I also remember Henryk's TR...it was black/tan and had over 60k miles on it, and the dealer offered him $35k for it. As for a TR engine rebuild I would guess it should run around $30k to $35k. There are supposedly "good" used engines out there for less than $20k....and some down to around $10k but these are suspect of course. The cylinder pressures you are getting are low. Considering the TR's compression ratio is not very high (8.8:1) I would guess you should see readings around 130 to 150psi. I have a hard time believing that a TR motor with only 51k miles would need a rebuild already. These motors are very strong and well built and should last a long time. From your description it sounds like they were following proper procedure for checking cylinder pressures. If they squirt some oil into a "low" cylinder thru the spark plug hole and the pressure goes up it generally means the rings are the problem. If nothing changes it usually means it's a valve issue. If the car starts well and runs well with no apparent issues, you might negotiate a price reduction based on a percentage of the cost of an engine rebuild, and drive it until something goes - which may be a very long time. But if I were the owner I would definately want a second opinion. Again if the owner has taken good care of this car and driven it properly, I just can't imagine the TR motor would need major work. If you investigate further please keep us informed of your progress. I would really like to know what's going on in there.

 

As an aside, to Brian and Verell:

How many TR motors do you see with bad compression/leakdowns if they are 50,000 miles or less???

Is this usually a valve issue (ie - it hit the pistons, but not particullarily hard)? Scored pistons? Frozen rings?

I still remember buying my car, and being told by the dealer that "no one" gets leakdowns/compression tests on testarossa's. They just aren't known for motor problems...

PS. What did Henryk finally sell his car for???

 

If it is stuck rings, is there a hope that they will reseat with use? Or is the thought that they are rusted/fused to the cylinder, and a rebuild is inevitable???

 

Bo,

It's possible.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Would running a bunch of techron through a motor "unstick" rings???

I could see stuck rings on a car not used in several years...less likely on a 50,000 mile car...

 

Aaahhhhh yes the mighty LT5 motor! I too previously owned a 1991 ZR-1 (Quasar Blue/Tan) with some bolt on modifications. (Sorry to hijack this thread for a second) I had Jeal headers and chip, cold air box, 4.09 gears, and a K&N filter. The car made 387 hp at the rears....for a motor rated at 375 hp that's pretty darn good. If they'd only made the cars about 500 pounds lighter! ZR-1s are sooooo under rated, kinda like the TR your looking at. I sold my ZR-1 to get my first TR and have no regrets. I do miss that car though, awesome sound and performance. A GOOD running TR is about an even match for an early ZR-1 in my opinion. But they each have their strong points in different ways. I'm on my 2nd TR now and very happy with it. These cars have so much value for so little money right now.

As for the TR your looking at, I would really like to know what the real experienced Ferrari guys (like Brian Crall) think about it. I would guess that more driving will probably help the situation. But that's just a hunch. There may be some type of oil additive that could be temporarily used to "unstick" things. The owner letting the car sit for 3 years didn't do it any favors that's for sure. But if the car didn't see big temp changes it may be okay. I wouldn't give up just yet.

 

I am a DIY and performed compression tests on two separate Euro-spec TR's. One, a 1987 in July of 2000 that had 47,631 Kms (29,603 miles) and a 1988 in April of this year with 68,534 Kms (42,594 miles).

Both engines were done cold with all sparkplugs removed. Approximately 8-10 cranks each and double checked with second compression gauge.

Below is the Data for both.

1987 SN: 55677 (15 July 2000) 29, 603 miles

Cyl# Compression 1 Compression 2 Average
1 189 191 190
2 184 185 184.5
3 190 188 189
4 190 192 191
5 185 190 187.5
6 190 190 190
7 185 186 185.5
8 185 189 187
9 184 187.5 185.75
10 182.5 186 184.5
11 190 190 190
12 187 187 187

High average on cylinder # 4: 190 Low average on cylinder # 2: 184.25 Diff: 3.02 %

1988 SN: 72735 (16 Apr 2006) 42,594 miles

Cyl# Compression 1 Compression 2 Average
1 160 160 160
2 157 157 157
3 172 173 172.5
4 175 175 175
5 175 175 175
6 177 178 177.5
7 170 170 170
8 172 172 172
9 175 175 175
10 163 163 163
11 154 154 154
12 155 156 155.5

High average on cylinder # 6: 177.5 Low average on cylinder # 11: 154 Diff: 13.32 %

I think that a good difference between high and low cylinders should be around 10% (you experts please correct me if I am wrong). So as you can see, the higher mileage TR has a wider dispersion than the lower mileage one.

Hope this helps.