The difference between true champions

nicely said. i agree with u 100%. schumi will be king again in 2006.

 

Don't forget Mika had a very bad crash early in his career that nearly killed him. With the exception of Silverstone, which wasn't nerly as bad a crash Schumacher has never been in those shoes to contemplate the same thing.

 

Very well said. The only other drivers that I have ever known of to have such an incredible love for driving and racing is Mario Andretti and Stirling Moss. I too feel privledged to see MS in action. AS for Hakkinen, he is a great driver that I have lots of respect for but his motivation showed definative signs of waivering well before his near fatal crash. Hakkinen is a RACER who never gave the same application to his testing. MS on the other hand seems to push harder than anyone every time he is in a car regardless what the conditions are.

 

I've never liked MS but I agree that his approach to the sport makes him the great chanpion he is and does set him apart from all current drivers on the grid.

Mika Hakinnen was no different when he was racing F1. He's a different personality and as someone just said his nearly tragic testing accident marked him for the rest of his career. When Hakinnen was racing his only thought was getting in the car and winning, much like MS and other greats (Senna comes to mind). I think he one day realized he could not continue doing this after having a son and decided to quit while he was still at his prime. That takes determination and b@lls... tell that to Jacques Villeneuve or Damon Hill.

 

MS often spent the winter vacation away from testing and left that work to the underlings like Badoer and Gene. Only now that the 2005 car sucked so badly did he short cut his vaca and get back in the seat. Has nothing to do with being a great champion.

FA OTOH has just come back from winning his first (of many more) championships in the best or second best car there is. Understandably that he is a bit reluctant to start the process all over again.

If you want to compare MS with FA, the difference lies in their approach to what they tell the media. FA tells it how it is. MS repeats words his press secretary (forgot her name, the blonde he hired after the 99 incident with Montezemolo) crafts for him.

Speaking of 99 and true Champions: Herr Schumacher was so disinterested in his allegedly so beloved Scuderia that he rather played soccer with the amateur league than testing for Ferrari when the team needed him the most to secure the title.

 

You have to respect Mika's desire to be with his family though. He's already got tons of fame, glory, and money, plus (most likely) free Mercedes' for life. Being a part of your kids' lives is really important, so I definitely respect that.

 

That argument is so lame it is not even an argument. If it hadn't been for Hakkinen's misfortunes MS wouldn't have won in 2000. If it hadn't been for Hill's misfortunes MS wouldn't have won that title either. And on and on and on. You're assuming you have seen everything there was in the Alonso/Renault bag. You're probably wrong, I bet they could have raced harder but were playing it safer because the title was on the line. McLaren and Kimi played the only strategy they could after a very late start to the season, which is risk it all.

I agree on the 36 years part. I'd think any driver other than MS will be calling it quits. You call that dedication and I'd agree to some point with that. Others (eg. PSK) calls MS a freak of nature. And I agree to some extent with that too. It is strange to see him still go at it after having set a record of titles probably nobody will ever set again.

Interesting how you ignored to answer the 99 issue where MS' loyalty to the team had a less than shining moment and it took the authority of Monetzemolo himself to get him back working for the team.

I don't care much either how they give info to the media. But you started that argument by saying FA is lame for making such a statement. He is less media savvy, less polished by corporate PR talk and also less mature. Not a surprise from the youngest champion ever. I bet if somebody would dig out some commentaries from a younger MS, they weren't all gold as well. Although I would have preferred that, it is more honest. I liked him for storming into the McLaren pits yelling "Murderer!" at DC in Spa. That was at least real.

PS: I think MS is one of the best (if not the best) and I like the guy. What I don't like is the red mist, he ain't God and FA deserved his title and his place in the F1 Pantheon. So will Kimi at some point.

 

I didn't see the comment by Alonso--far be it for the press to misrepresent someone. But take into account that they DID win the Championship. And by that I don't mean that they should go screw off and rest on their laurels, but rather that means the pressure was that much more intense on everyone all season long, especially Alonso. In Schumacher's comment about skipping his customary vacation in lieu of earlier testing, even he said that in his Championship years he felt a break was well-earned and welcomed, and it is because of their poor results last season that he felt the need to go testing now instead of next month. So while on the surface it may seem appropriate to jump on Fernando for his comment, perhaps judgement should be held for a later time. It just feels to me that this is an extension of the "Is Fernando Alonso a Worthy Champion?" bashing/threads.

 

Ah, that one. Hmm, let's see:

- Did he win the title because the championship leaders were either killed or got mangled a la Villeneuve/Pironi in 82 and he "inherited" the points lead?
No. Hmm.

- Did he win his title by a mere half point kinda like what Lauda did to Prost?
No, actually he won it by quite a margin. Hmm.

- Did he win because his team bent the rules by using a refueling device without a filter so the fuel could get delivered faster hence saving him valuable time in the pitstop?
Nope.

- Did he win because he simply took his only opponent left standing out in the last race like some other highly regarded champion did in Adelaide?
Actually he didn't.

- Hmm, did he win because his tires were so superior to his rival that his rival had no chance?
Negative, his rival used the same tires.

So he simply won because he had more points more at the end of the season? I see, that really is unworthy of a champion.

 

Andreas your exactly correct. And the guy talking "Crap" about FA, give it a rest. Alonso won it fair and square, take a look at the last race in China to see what Alonso could do when Renault let him off the leash. We all know MS is one of the greats but it doesn't make him any better by bashing Alonso. Read the whole interview and you realise that FA was giving tongue and cheek answers to the Reporters questions.

http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/index.html

 

Ferrari and Michael are very serious about a non 05 repeat. It was great to see test the V8 this week.

Alonso is a worthy champion.
But I wish Fisi had a car to his liking with some reliability.

Fisi didn't have any input in the car.
Renault and Flavio even admitted we'll field two winning cars in 2006 yence basically confirming 2005 was a one driver Alonso Renault team.

What Fisi said to autosprint(november):

"In 2006 I will have a team and a car capable of letting me win the Drivers' World Championship," Fisichella told Autosprint

"He raced with a car designed around him and it must be driven in a certain way which is totally different from my driving style. He is very aggressive with the steering wheel at turn entry, while I'm very tidy. Thing is the R25 had to be driven more with his style than with mine."

In fact Flavio [Briatore] told me: 'Now that we've won everything, we find ourselves with the right budget to have two winning cars.'

 

i do agree. at the end of the day, FA won the championship fair and square. i mean, even tho i don;t like his personality, i think he won it well. look at imola, and as someone pointed out, china. he did drive like true champ. one big diff is, i think in my view is, kimi tends to perform better compared to FA when it comes to being pressured. basiclly, kimi was under huge pressure throughout the season, and FA, under pressure in hungary and canada, he didn;t do well. at the end of the day, these 2 young kids just lack experience. i'm very sure, kimi will get his title 1 day. both are just in their 20s, FA in particular. he's just 3-4 years older than me, and he's achieved hell of a achievements. btws, when schumi finally retires, i think there'll be young guns like FA and kimi who will be masters of F1.

 

As much as I like AF and hope that he will be driving for Ferrari in the near future, but to place him among the best ever in the F1 Pantheon after one WDC is a bit premature.

 

If you are going travel down that road, why not talk about how two well respected WCs took their title by crashing into each other at Suzuka too. Should we discredit their accomplishments too?

 

I'm not discrediting MS title against Hill. It was actually amazing and speaks for MS that he pulled it off despite missing a bunch of races.

My point is, that that title win was disputed by many people. Just like his first was because Benetton was alleged (along with other teams) for having played with the engine electronics. "Schummel Schumi" (translation: Schumacher the cheater) was his nickname in the press at the time. Some people went as far as to say his first title with Ferrari was really the first one he earned. And then others said well, he won several of his titles to easy because he had no worthy opponent.

I'm not buying into any of this, again my point is just to remind a few on here that even some of MS' titles were questioned at the time (or by some still today). So who is to say that FA is an unworthy champ and why?

You mention the Senna vs Prost "accidents". True, those years and titles could be brought to the foreground as well.

Thinking about it, the list goes on and on: How about Villeneuve vs Scheckter? Gilles gave Jody that title, to some degree. If we want to disect worthy titles there is a lot of things that speak for and against a champion. And it is really sour grapes to go on about it. Fact is MS has 7 titles, FA has 1 and that's that. Both are World Champions, one at this point obviously more accomplished than the other.

 

I am not sure which crash you are referring to. The one I was referring to was Adelaide 95, where the doctors on the scene were expecting to pronounce him dead. They had to perform a trachemoetry on him shortly before air lifting him out. He nearly died twice in the helicopter according to reports.

Schumacher has never been that close to death. It's possibly in the same shoes as Hakkinen he may have still given the same dedication has he does now but we will never know.

 

Yes and no. Technically you're quite correct, but MS did have his moments where I'm sure his life flashed in front of his eyes. Silverstone 99 being an obvious one. He had other accidents, that could have easily ended terminally (one in Mugello, one in Adelaide, one in Monza and one in Interlagos).

Given his realistically untouchable record of titles, his money, his wealth and his wonderful family it is a bit puzzling that he still is willing to put all that at risk. Among many others Philippe Streiff comes to mind.

 

The way I figure it, True Champions finish the season with more points than the next guy.
The only role model that comes to mind is Niki Lauda after his return from that firery crash.

 

yeah..i agree on that...i don;t think many can do what he did...comin back and takin home the title weeks after he nearly died...

 

Ahem, there is only one minor problem: He didn't.

The fear and horror of the Nuerburgring accident wasn't really digested by Nikki's psyche at that point and when the rain came down hard in Fuji, he gave up the championship and let James Hunt win it.

 

Even though he did not win the championship that year,I feel it was the mark of a True Champion to recover and step into the car again that same season. It would have been a fairy tale ending if he would have finished that Fuji race and clinched the title. Sometimes I try to see the situation from his eyes but its impossible to do unless you've lived the circumstances.
In my mind he still was a True Champion that year.

 

Agreed on all that.

Sadly the Fuji withdrawal also poisoned his relationship with Enzo and Ferrari.

 

yeah..nothing like experiencing near death and live to tell it.