You want proof that the part was replaced. That and have you seen what a "rebuilt" water pump sells for? You are giving away your money to the mechanic. Shoot you may even buy your old pump back from him for all you know. Or you can keep it and have the pump rebuilt for the next service. Even the tentioners can have new bearings put in them. So keep YOUR old parts.
If you pay the same attention to valve clearances as you do to grammar, I'd say they are probably out of adjustment. Don't you mean to say, "I couldn't care less?" Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. Kind of like doing work myself that I can pay someone else to do better and more efficiently. I also pay someone to tune my Steinway piano. Some prefer to work on their own cars at night and on weekends. I prefer to drive my car on the weekend. It took FSF 60 hours to do a 30K for me and they have all of the tools, equipment, parts and factory training. It probably would have taken me 120 hours if I took my time and did meticulous work. Let's see, that's almost two months of weekends working 8 hours a day Saturday and Sunday. A Ferrari is indeed a big boy toy. One must have the resources to pay for its upkeep.
Hahahaa what a joke. I will be the first to admit my grammer sucks. HeRe# hOW*s tHiS, WHiLe i'M @T It WhY d0n'T i ThRoGh !n sOme ImpRopER; USe of tHe K3y BoARd. This AIN'T english class professor. LOL!!!! I bet the real reason you took your car to the dealer is because your scared to work on your car. You don't have the confidence, or BALLS as I like to say, to do your own work. As for having the resources. Not only did I buy my 348 on the one payment plan, I also have spent in the neighborhood of $10,000 having some else work on my car before I started to do my own work. Now that I have done my own work and know what it takes, I try to encourage others to do the same. I don't like getting ripped off, and don't like to see others get ripped off either. The dealers are crooks plain and simple. I'm here trying to put some confidence in the guys that are able to do the work themselves, then you come along and try to tear down these guys. It is guys like you that scare other owners into continually going to the dealer and spending way more money than what is need to to get the job done. Guys like you who don't have the BALLS to do their own work, and try to hide behind money, resale value, or someones "bad grammer". So until you grown some BALLS and pull the engine yourself like a MAN, keep shut.
Hear Hear Earnie! I'll tell you something else about having someone else do your work. You don't know if they really did it. By that I mean, I had all the fluids changed on both my cars before I took delivery, but somehow I get the feeling it wasn't ALL done. The plug on the transmission fill dosen't look like it's ever been touched, no wrench marks inside, uniform dirt on it and casing..... you know what I mean, anyway I got so paranoid about it I just did it myself. I mean who's gonna know if they flushed the brakes or not, and if I have to check, I'd just as soon do it myself.
You can't fault someone for taking a car, or any other machine to an expert for service. Most people lack either the skills, tools, time or facilities to do their own work and frankly there are some things that are better done by someone else. Besides, mechanics must make a living too and there are some great people out there doing an excellent job taking care of their customers and they should be recognized and supported. I believe in paying good people good money for quality work. However....I disagree with the misguided notion that any task done by a professional is ALWAYS done better than if you DIY. A busy shop has a line cars waiting to be fixed and has to balance time and resources to get billable work completed to pay the rent. When working on my own car - I don't care how long it takes and I can pay extra attention to do the job right. Besides, while there are many reputable mechanics there are also the few ripoff artists. If you do at least some work on your own car, when you do take it to a mechanic you have a clue as to what they are doing. You also know if something doesn't look or sound right. Even good techs can have an off day. I can tell you that the previous owner of my car paid top dollar for some work that I am confident was never done, and some work done incorrectly. While doing the service on my car I found two tools lying under the plenum that had been dropped and never retrieved, several internal bolts missing and a belt pulley bolted on backwards. The cam covers were smeared with way too much silicone and were leaking like crazy, and several gaskets were installed incorrectly. All this by supposed experts. Another example: Today I was doing a maintenance service on my trusty Mercedes E-class which I enjoy working on. I was changing the poly v-belt, checking the fan clutch and pulleys and found that the belt tensioner was installed wrong, and the adjustment rod had broken as it was installed backwards. I actually paid to have this done at the last belt change by a "professional" mechanic (MB dealership). Additionally I now realize they charged me way too much for labor based on how long it took me to do the same job vs what they billed for. There are plenty of frustrating examples like this which is why some would rather do it themselves. While how deep you get into the DIY thing is an certainly an individual choice, I think every owner should know at least a little about their cars mechanicals so that they don't get taken when taking their cars for service. And to clear something up...often DIYing it has little to do with affordability as some people actually LIKE doing this kind of stuff as a hobby. I find it odd when people quote the "if you can't afford to pay a professional then you obviously can't afford the car" or the popular "because it will affect resale..." lines. While there is some truth to the latter, I think the former is (no offense intended to anyone) a perpetuated myth partially based on a value of conspicuous consumption. Additionally people confuse the concept of DIY maintenance with deferred maintenance, hence the stigma. As I see it, when you can truly afford something, resale value is a secondary (tertiary, quaternary) issue and you can freely enjoy the ownership experience. For some, that means keeping things pristine, never opening the hood themselves, and having someone else do everything. For others that means tinkering away endlessly. I know well-heeled owners who enjoy getting a little greasy now and then and others who don't. They all have the same passion. As for me, I maintain our MB's, the 348, the lawn tractor, neighbor's lawnmower, help with family member's cars, and even some co-worker's cars as well. Once I master the maintenance of the 348 I plan to keep it and get a four-seater like a Mondial for family drives (expecting first child next month) and eventually add a 12-cylinder (TR) to the stable - and will not buy them unless I feel comfortable maintaining them all myself. I see nothing wrong with that as that is how I (and some others) enjoy the ownership experience most. YMMV. Shan
Well said. Knowledge keeps you from getting screwed, always. I agree with everything else as well, but it made for a long quote. Thanks for posting.
Look Ernie, I didn't start the personal attacks and the repeated references to one's manhood or lack thereof. If you have an issue with dealers and other professional mechanics, that's a great topic for this board and I'm sure you will get a lot of action if you start a thread. However, it sounds like you have an issue with masculinity. For that you might try Dr. Phil or Dr. Laura. This is Ferrari Chat. By the way, I do perform minor repairs and maintenance on all of my cars. But when I had to make a decision about removing the engine, I decided that it's just impossible for someone like me who has to balance work, family and fun to spend 7 or 8 weekends on such a project. In reality, it would take me 6 months of stealing time here and there to do the job right. As you know, here in CA, we can drive our cars 12 months out of the year. I'm not excited about having my car up on blocks for half of a year. Generally, the decision to do the work myself comes down to the time and the tools it will take to complete the job. If the job takes two days or fewer, I'll do it myself. Even if I have to buy tools that cost as much as taking the car to a garage, I'll do it because then I've paid for the tools and have them for future use. I hope my input helps others to make the right decisions for their own situations.
Shan well said. Dak, no hard feelings. Sometimes it's fun to mix it up with the boys here. I threw in the "MAN" thing to see who I could get to bite. I understand were your coming from. I have a little beater, for my work car, that I take to a mechanic. It is so cheap to have it worked on that I have him do it. However I have fixxed several things on to it myself, the next may well be pulling the axles and installing new ones. Anyway the guy I take it to is very honnest, and is not out to bleed you for as much money as he can get. So like Shan, and I'm sure you, I have no problem paying him good money for the excellent work he does. However, I too have seen the crap work done buy the dealers, who are supposed have the highest standards because they are "factory trained". What makes it worse for a Ferrari is, not only are the parts ridiculously expensive, add to it the insane prices they charge for labor. To top this off, then they will over charge people on the amount of time it takes to do a job, that later you found out was not done right or not even done at all. That is were I get steamed. When you know you are getting burned you put it to a stop. Then you make sure that your friends don't get the wool pulled over their eye's either. For the most part since I consider the guys here my friends, you included, I don't wanna see them get burned. That is were I'm coming from.
I've watched this thread with interest....as I'm one of those fellas who performs "owner-service work" on my Testarossa. I have had the pleasure of re-fixing many little things that a dealer did to my car when the previous owner had it serviced. I must say that care and attention to details was certainly lacking by the proffessional mechanic. I found frame bolts loose, over-tightened AC and alternator belts, missing nuts here and there, a water pump rebuild that was actually never done, original fluid in the gearbox, old hoses and and couplers through out the cooling system, cooling fans left unplugged, and many more little things. I was not impressed. I do know there are many good and ethical mechanics out there who far outnumber the crooked ones. But it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch. I do find it disturbing that so many feel that owner-serviced cars are somehow less maintained than dealer-serviced cars. While again it only takes a few "owner-deferred maintenance" cars to send up a red flag, this should not be considered as the majority. My budget does not allow for me to take my car to a dealer, and after doing 2 majors myself, I'm not so sure I'd want to if I could afford it. There is great satisfaction in doing it yourself and being successful. But the perception that my car is worth less because I did the work is upsetting. I did document with notes and pictures, all the work I've done, and I have all the old parts. I am confident that my car is as good or better than most any dealer-serviced car. And if I were going to buy another TR and the owner had done what I've done and could explain it in detail, I wouldn't have any problem buying the car.....especially if the car has been driven a few thousand miles since the service with no problems. I would like to see this "perception" of owner-serviced cars change, maybe in time. It is not the curse that many would have you think it is.
Jeff: I'm curious as to how long it took you each time you did your two majors...and did it take less time the second time around?
Just one thought on deprecation because of DIYing your car: When looking for a Mondial t Cab I finally found a private seller where both the owner and the car made a reasonable impression at first glance. I examined the car and removed the oil filler cap. The owner asked me what this cap is for (!). He then explained to me that he only drives the car and never cares for technical details ... After this answer I was almost sure that it isn´t a good idea to buy this car. The test drive confirmed my impression: He was first to drive and put the cold engine well above 7000 rpm ... Poor car :-( Did I mention that the car had a failure free service record? Conclusion: I would only pay for a car where at least the last owner was a true enthusiast that didn´t neglect the car because of ignorance. If he did the maintenance himself I would even pay more, a complete service record doesn´t mean much to me.
Hello dakharris: I performed both major services during the winter as my time allowed, so I can't put an exact time span to it. I also went overboard and refinished the engine intakes, cam covers, air filter box, air intake ducts, etc. I also refinished the fuel lines, and installed new injectors. The list goes on and on. If I were to guess I'd say it would take me about 3 weeks of solid work going hog-wild as I did. The second major was much faster, maybe about 7 days or so. All this without using a hoist or power tools. I wouldn't want to go any quicker or quality may suffer....and I'm a fussy one for details. AR! makes an excellent point. If the owner is a "true" enthusiast and serviced his car, then you know his heart was in the work he did.
