The end of Ferrari, as we know it

I respect that you want to be relaxed after a 1000 mile drive, but many of us want to be exhilarated on a 1000 mile drive.

 

Exhilaration is on the short weekend trips

Typically the majority of those 1000 miles would be in traffic with very little opportunity to get exhilarated about anything ;-)

This discussion reminds me of the discussion between manual and automatics. I would prefer DTC any day over the manual, a torque converter automatic not so much, the electrical manual (F1) not at all

 

Chris, you seem like a nice guy, but this statement alone shows how out of touch you are with the world production of energy:

"And Florida could easily have 85% of it's energy from renewables or even more."

Have you worked in the Florida energy industry? I have, and I chose Florida for a reason. The resources available and needs of that state alone have nothing in common with countries that will fit on a postage stamp, although I'm sure they are pretty stamps.

So I'm not going to continue to debate with you on this any longer.

 

Call me crazy but I like the smell of gas and the sound of a roaring engine, not an electric golf cart

 

Thank you, You too

I've been to Florida many times, almost all over the state and stayed there 3 times for more than 4 continuous months. So the area of Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland is +500,000 square miles with approx. 25 million people, we've made it work and we do not have nearly as much sun as Florida and unlike Florida everything is not flat ;-) I agree that Florida's electrical infrastructure is not up to scratch, but that is not because the energy is not there ...

 

Take good care of your ICU Ferrari as they won’t be replaceable. I’m glad I lived in a time when I could experience the amazing sound of a Ferrari.

 

Rockefeller and Standard Oil were firmly committed to making gasoline profitable. Initially it was a byproduct. Key to the eventual dominance of ICE.


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The key to the eventual dominance was the high energy density per unit volume, second only to nuclear sources.

If you want to have a fun weekend project, go look up the size of a steam turbine vs a similar power rating natural gas turbine. And as recently as 40+ years ago, natural gas was considered a waste product that Clients paid us to get rid of.

 

Just a few points re chip tech car technology and analog car technology...I have owned my 1980 308 GTBi for the past 37 years. When it reached 78,000 miles I had a decision to make A) sell and buy a new tech car or B) invest over $135K in a car that had given me years of driving satisfaction by letting me be an active participant in the driving experience i.e. I had to shift the car manually, I had to coordinate the shifting through a gated shifter, whlie depressing a very robust clutch (6o lbs of pressure needed to depress it etc.). I chose B, and enjoy the looks I get when driving my car. Now it's good for another 40 years!

 

Here is a set of facts:

Denmark total energy consumption: 33.02 Billion kWh

Florida total energy consumption: 17.5 Trillion kWh

Not even in the same ballpark to even correlate renewable energy with this spread of consumption. The whole country of Denmark is like the city of Tampa in Florida.

 

Ferrari will **** up an EV because they will use a POS part to save 50 cents.


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Ferrari is pretty much Stelantis at this point (Chrysler/fiat) they will use dodge parts (they already do anyways)..so they will be sort of reliable. In other words..they will be boring.

 

Luigi will find a way to **** things up.

 

I plan to do the same to my 1993 Porsche, and would have done the same to my ex 328 GTS. There’s nothing new or nearly new that has the same appeal.

That said, I would gladly go for a proper EV daily driver. Low maintenance and fast. I think we’ll see a sharp bifurcation between enthusiast hobby cars and daily drivers. A lot of “normal” buyers wouldn’t put up with the idiosyncrasies of a 308/328. Air-cooled 911 has been less maintenance for me, but the amenities and ergonomics are a joke in 2022.

Also… the idea of having a Ferrari where the odometer is irrelevant and the services are cheap makes me consider that you could drive a Ferrari every day — or at least not worry that no one will buy it after 10,000 miles!


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So that is about 40% higher energy consumption per capita in Florida vs Denmark ... talk about not being in the same ballpark.

 

Some of us like to have different cars for different drives.

1000 miles in a twitchy, demanding car, is tiring. It is typically loud and exhausting. I will take my truck with lane assist. Would be even better if it had adaptive cruise.

Driving for an hour or two? Sure, I want my hair to be on fire the whole time. It can be uncomfortable, exacting, and next to unusable as long as it delivers an experience.

The trick I have yet to pull is finding a car that is comfortable enough to take on long trips, but engaging so that if you do find that good bit of curvy road you can make use of it.

 

Are we talking energy conservation or generation? The topic was on generation (renewable) for EV, that was the point you were making. Apparently, since that doesn’t fit the narrative with a set of facts that were asked for, we have to switch to consumption, to see if that will work. People in Denmark can ride bikes for all their transportation needs and read by candlelight for all I care, and they can install all the bird killing windmills they want if they feel that is how they want to live. I think it’s great…for them.

 

May I humbly present the Porsche 911

 

Norway as a comparison has about 50% the annual light-vehicle sales of Los Angeles, so 50% of Norway sales being EV, utterly meaningless, particularly when it is realized that the Norwegian government is providing significant handouts to anyone purchasing EV.

Norway is a completely invalid reference point for EV adoption, without any meaning other than government handouts work which is no surprise.

References:

https://carsalesbase.com/norway-car-sales-data/

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https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-2Q-20.pdf


If Norway was not an oil-rich country:
https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/economy/governments-revenues/

Norway probably could not afford such ENORMOUS handouts to push EV adoption...and supporting infrastructure...if not for its oil revenue!!

The Norwegian EV incentives:

• No purchase/import tax on EVs (1990-)
• Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-)
• No annual road tax (1996-2021). Reduced tax from 2021. Full tax from 2022.
• No charges on toll roads (1997- 2017).
• No charges on ferries (2009- 2017).
• Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (201
• Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019)
• Free municipal parking (1999- 2017)
• Access to bus lanes (2005-). New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016)
• 50 % reduced company car tax (2000-2018). Company car tax reduction reduced to 40% (201 and 20 percent from 2022.
• Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015)
• The Norwegian Parliament decided on a national goal that all new cars sold by 2025 should be zero-emission (electric or hydrogen) (2017).
• «Charging right» for people living in apartment buildings was established (2017/2021-)
• Public procurement: From 2022 cars needs to be ZEV. From 2025 the same applies to city buses

Reference:
https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/

 

Sorry, Where I said “consumption”, I meant “conservation”. I should have re-read and put the right word in.

 

Native Floridian here.

Curious: How many hurricanes does Denmark get? Because hurricanes tend to wipe out entire cities and towns, and it feels like miles of solar panels would be part of the carnage.

As to comparing our per-capita energy use - I'll just point out that the summer temps in Florida appear to be 25-30F+ higher than Denmark, and air conditioning is a necessity.

 

Dude - look at your post, you were the one that introduced consumption, I just used your facts

I don't know why you talk about switching things because of the narrative. Can't you remember what you wrote? I've highlighted the word consumption in your post so it is easier to spot

 

I've experienced that and do not envy you those hurricanes and I've always wondered why the electrical lines are not in the ground. Anyway, I think some clever people would be able to figure something out

You are right about the summers, however we have something they call winter ;-) I think the average temperature in Denmark over a year is just below 45F, so we do need to warm our houses.

 

Actually you are correct about the right kind of vehicle, I wasn't considering that. An older model mid-engine like a 308 is not the best for a 1000 mile drive.

I have a 612 that I have driven to FL several times and a couple times to AZ and CO. Very comfortable and yet able to handle the curviest of roads. And the same holds true for my FF.

 

The first post was to highlight the amount of energy consumed that would need renewable energy. It was answering your "facts" question about the amount of renewables on the Danish Grid. That can only be done by total consumption to replace. That was just answering that request for facts that was celebrating the 40% renewables on the Danish grid. The point was that it would take the total number of renewable items of the WHOLE country of Denmark, crammed into a location that does not have the space for that, to meet just the city of Tampa's requirements. It is not possible to make an apples to apples comparison.That was the point.

The second post of yours was talking about "consumption" per capita and the insinuation that Florida is a glutton of over consumption of electricity which has to do with conservation. This has nothing to do with pushing EV's and renewable energy instead of oil, and that was the point of my second post in response and your post switching to "conservation" from "generation" because generating 40% of the state of Florida's energy from renewables is almost impossible and a pipe dream.

I made a third post to point out that I made a mistake when I was typing my second post and put the word "consumption" instead of "conservation" pointing out the mistake in my second post. I think your response to me was before you saw the third post pointing out my typing mistake. But, like I said, comparing Denmarks renewables to the State of Florida's ability to replace with renewables is not comparable and the facts why have been delivered. Fossil Fuels will be needed, and until they run out, the switch to nuclear will be the only way to meet energy demands.

Anyone can make a body panel, anyone can put in an electric motor, anyone can design electronics to control power to, and harvesting from, the electric motor, anyone can deliver instant torque with an electric motor, anyone can make an interior with the latest gadgets, SO, EV will be the end of Ferrari and every other supercar and will NEVER be able to sell a $500,000 car that is just like every other car that will sell for $50,000. It will not be today, it will be later once all the major manufacturers move to only producing electric cars. Therefore, it will be the end of Ferrari as you know it.