The Enzo reimagined.... Jim's Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina

What magazines will be represented at the unveiling or who will have articles on the car? I would suspect the normals: Car and Driver I would expect to have a fairly small article since they got the official first release. Motortrend? Road and Track? Some European magazines I'm sure as well. Just want to see which ones to look to buy in the near future.

Peter Hatch

 

This leads me to believe that there will be a few in a number...

Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 3,130,000 for ferrari P 4/5. (0.65 seconds)

 

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FYI

http://www.scuderiaferrari.pl/modele/drogowe/enzo/p4-5/

 

in that last photo it says "the technicians found they were substantially different from the original factory specs". What's that mean?

 

This is normal. When a car moves into final production (The Enzo) minor things are changed for and sometimes on the production line. It happens with all cars for various reasons. What it meant to us was that we couldn't rely on the "Final Enzo Engineering Drawings" but had to physically disassemble and measure my Enzo to pick up the actual chassis hard points we had to work with. One thing that still amazes me is that P 4/5 is fit to an existing chassis. That took a lot of work.

 

Was any other car even considered for the base instead of the Enzo? Possibly the 599GTB or the F430...

Peter Hatch

 

Probably not the 599, because it is front-engined. Though the F430 is mid-engined, it doesn't really have the right proportions IMHO.

 

From what I gather no car was ever considered being used aside from the Enzo, but I could be wrong.

 

My original brief to Pininfarina was: I want something that looks like a P4 on an Enzo chassis.

Jason sketched that up and the journey began.

I do feel Pininfarina could make a wonderfull one off on a 599 platform and I'm sure someone is dreaming of one already.

FYI Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Ferrari-P4-5-by-Pininfarina-1of-1-Built-Car-Poster_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10076QQihZ008QQitemZ180015709442QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I've dropped them a note...

 

How much was the chasis modified? I know the Enzo was the most practical seeing as that was the engine you were planning on using. How much of the Enzo was recycled into the P4/5? Was it "just" the body, the radiators, and interior that were modified? If just for the engine and so forth then why not the new 599 with the new, faster transmission? Is the 599 the exact same engine from the Enzo? I understand that the P series race cars had rear engines, but if you put in the same amount of money total then a 599 could easily be made rear engined, with extensive body modifications as well as all other things that have been done along with possible extras that you couldn't fit in the budget wuth a car double the 599's base price (I read you picked up the Enzo for 650,000). I'm not in any way dissappointed that you chose to use the Enzo, it is a beautifully made machine, as is your creation, as is the 599. Just curious as to the thought process. Then again, the 599 isn't sold here yet, which would put a damper on the due date. I guess we have been through this before, but the answer I received back wasn't in depth enough to what I was hoping. I may have a lot of rereading to do.

Peter Hatch

You also said the Enzo pieces sold would bring back a small amount of money back, but I can't see any Ferrari Pieces going cheap. Especially since you would have spent less on the initial body. Maybe I'm just a naive fifteen year old.

 

Ok, well then it makes perfect sense they chose to use an Enzo.

Peter Hatch

 

This is from another thread but I thought you all might find it interesting.
I've asked Hippo to join in.



#34 Today, 11:14 AM
hippo
Formula Junior
Not Subscribed Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL,M'SIA
Full Name: Andri
Posts: 346

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napolis
What would you calculate Cx .338 frontal area (M2) 1.906 and 660 hp top speed to be? (weight 1200KG.) Also with 800 HP and 1000HP pls.

Best

"660bhp"
alright,but i think you have to add around 85kg for driver
as well as around 30-40kg for fluids,pads,etc.
based on a kerb weight of around 1315kg with 561RWHP(660bhp-15%)and a Cx of 0.338 and fr. ar. of 20.516sq.ft.,you'd get a maximum of 224.9mph depending
on gearing.

"800bhp"
1315kg,Cx 0.338,fr ar 20.516sq.ft with 680 RWHP(800-15%) Vmax:239.18mph

"1000bhp"
1315kg,Cx 0.338,fr ar 20.516sq.ft with 850 RWHP(1000-15%) Vmax:272.4mph

why does the veyron "only" do 256.8mph?GEARing.TYRES(no manufacturer dared to make a road legal tyre capable of sustained 250+mph!!).PHYSICS(oil surge,coolant deficiencies,etc)and also it was STYLED first,then ENGINEERED.oops!still,the marvellous veyron doesnt make 1001bhp as quoted.
it's actually 1365bhp!!!!!!!!!!




#35 Today, 12:41 PM
Napolis
F1 Veteran
Honorary Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,583

Thanks so much.

Our weight includes all fluids etc as we set off on test drive. Our gearing is higher than Enzo's as we have larger tires. (Same size as Veryon but not run flat) Weight also affects tire safety and as we're lighter I think we're ok.

It's interesting to note because of the requirement that you must be able to run at max speed for a tank of fuel that why the Veryon's tank only gives you 12 minutes at max V.

What is the max V of the Veryon in normal mode? That's a more fair comparison as in high V mode you can't turn or touch the brakes.

How fast would we go with 1365HP?
__________________
Ec KrEw mAn uP an KnO ZeN.



#36 Today, 05:24 PM
hippo
Formula Junior
Not Subscribed Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL,M'SIA
Full Name: Andri
Posts: 346

the veyron in it's current configuration of Cx 0.35 with fr ar of 22.864sq.ft.
and 4150lbs kerb weight plus 1365bhp(1160rwhp) could theoretically do
271.1mph.
the veyron's "normal" Vmax is 232.6mph.(with all spoilers innactive)
still an incredible speed!

#37 Today, 09:27 PM
Napolis
F1 Veteran
Honorary Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,583



Looks like we need about 340 more hp to be sure...

 

Is that rear wheel horsepower or at the flywheel?

Peter Hatch

 

Flywheel to go 270. (Not that I would or the tires could)

 

I don't think I'd feel safe going those speeds in any car.

Peter Hatch

 

Planning anything?

 

While the engine topic is there, I'm just wondering what an enzo block would make with a lemans restrictor plate in place?

Hypothetically..... seeing as you've already got the FIA cage and gas generation fire extinguisher, how close would your wonderous creation come to passing entry into GT1? What fuel tanks do you have - conventional or fuel cell?

Most comfortable race car ever, or 270/340 bhp more and a trip to bonneville?

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/motoringpreviews/202264/ferrari_612_p45.html

 

She's smiling !
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Good Ol' Auto Express - Can't quite get the name right, and I kind of get the feeling that they don't really get it!

@Napolis, I'm tending to think that you're just enjoying the tease and wouldn't race her, as something in the back of my mind is saying that homologation would surely be an issue? Also taking the precident of the MC12, you'd be so restricted that it'd be hard to make an impression?

Don't get me wrong though, i'd love it for you to prove me wrong. Having made the pilgramage to the 24 hrs of Le Mans a number of times now, it seems to be losing a little soul with the domination of Audi and their £55m budgets. Taking nothing away from the increadible engineering achievment of engineering a diesel to win lemans, sitting in the crowd, it felt like watching a marketing exercise in full swing.

With it's roots firmly cast from the seed of the P3 and P4, the spiritual home of the P4/5 is surely at La Sarthe, not on a salt flat chasing a VW for what is quickly becoming a meaningless marketing figure. P4/5 would be more of an enjoyment to watch coming last, than the watching the ghostly quiet Audi come first again!

Rant over, I'll get back to my lurking!

P.S. That said, the spykers and the Corvettes were bloody good fun this year!

 

That front view is just stunning. So clean and modern, yet so reminiscent of the older cars. Once again, congratulations Mr.G

 

Please don't read anything in to this but random thoughts. I agree with much of what you say but I do have tremendous respect for Audi. That said I too miss the days when even the Prototypes looked like cars at as they raced down the Mulsanne...

 

Shame shame - maybe a racing team could be your next project

On the Audi front, in no way was I bashing on their achievement, I too have tremendous respect for Audi for what they've done as the R10 is a technical masterpiece. It's just that for me it seemed like they made a statement that they were going to win lemans with a diesel, and then threw money at it until they did.. A bit like the Veyron really, again a technical masterpiece, but somehow a little lacking in soul.

P.S. Don't get me started on the Mulsanne.... I'll start ranting about chicanes! Still a good laugh if can sneak through the woods for a look. In the dark as you approach it sounds like some wailing dinosaur!