The Exotic Warranty Company | Page 15 | FerrariChat

The Exotic Warranty Company

Discussion in 'Report Bugs & Ask Questions' started by noahlh, May 1, 2005.

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  1. Capone

    Capone Karting

    Mar 29, 2005
    235
    Midwest
    Looks pretty bad to me.

    I think I'll buy a warranty from this guy and then right after I'll go buy some stock in Enron.
     
  2. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2002
    3,202
    South England
    Full Name:
    Mark Collins
    Can I just clarify that the valves referred as requiring attention are the vacuum operated bypass valves in the exhaust system as opposed to cam activated valves in the head (ie part of the valve train)???????

    thanks
     
  3. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,333
    SF, Bay Area
    I understand, it's just that there was a spin doctor earlier who was turning this discussion to something it is not. I am trying to avoid that.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall


    Exhaust valves located in the head. Those are the only part that are properly referred to as exhaust valves.
     
  5. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2002
    3,202
    South England
    Full Name:
    Mark Collins
    Brian

    thanks but the fault description in some earlier post referred to non lubricated, rattling valves. It's obviously important as the letter to the Govenment authority refers to them being part of the exhaust system so I had assumed the bypass items not valvetrain?
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall

    Exactly our point.
     
  7. Steve R

    Steve R F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Sep 15, 2004
    3,018
    MeSoNeedy, CA
    Full Name:
    TorQ Master
    Rob,

    Can I buy banner space on this particular thread?
     
  8. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,205
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    Whew, that was a lot of reading....

    It seems to me that Ben basically screwed up by writing a very generic contract, and that was his greatest fault...now he is trying to prevent significant losses which he is legally required to cover.

    Honestly, seems to me that valve guides shouldn't be covered by an extended warranty, as these ARE wear items. These were not covered under my porsche warranties unless damaged by some other internal covered failure.

    Manifolds are another well known failure point on newer ferrari's, and I am surprised these weren't explicitly excluded.

    Regarding covering a rental car or fleet vehicle - it would be assinine for a company to do that. These cars are beat on, with very high mileage use. Do I think that ECW wrote a contract for Noah on a rental car? - Yes. The evidence point to this. Was it a HUGE MISTAKE on ECW part? - Absolutely. No statistician in the world would approve a no mileage limit rental car 1 year warrranty of a FERRARI for $3000 a year. Thats a no brainer...

    I think current contract holders should be paid, and BEN should revamp his contract to be more realistic.
     
  9. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
    6,081
    Southeast USA
    Full Name:
    Mike Charness
    Aackk! After seeing it probably a dozen times, let me help you -- it's WITCH hunt, not "which" hunt!

    Which hunt is the witch hunt? ;)
     
  10. robert biscan

    robert biscan F1 Veteran

    Jan 17, 2003
    5,066
    Nashville and Palm b
    Full Name:
    robert s biscan
    Wow. I say good job to all who posted. I like to see things bantered about back and forth. I agree with the idea of the warranty not being worth the money.
    This is a case of buyer beware. I'm not stating fault here anywhere just saying read all the info and get clarificarions if possible in writing.
     
  11. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,333
    SF, Bay Area
    I have a letter from Ben, who states, and this is a direct quote in response to a hypothetical question I asked regarding consequential damage, not misuse nor neglect:

    "... everything would be covered assuming you didn't have enough time to safely stop and get the vehicle towed in for service. However, if the vehicle is at the dealers and they say your check engine light was on for 1000 miles and now everything died, it would be your responsibility."

    Did EWC check with dealer to see if I neglected and or misused the car? No, they just assumed they can deny my coverage based on the exclusion of exhaust components and/or not following the proper procedure. I appreciate you trying to see both sides of the story but EWC could have easily request for that information from the servicing dealer or myself.
     
  12. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Geez. How can you post the answer to a question (even a hypothetical question) if you don't post the question?

    And I'm sorry, but if you can't/won't tell us what was wrong with your exhaust valves, YOU CAN'T USE THAT AS PART OF YOUR ARGUMENT!
     
  13. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,333
    SF, Bay Area
    Again, I was trying to show there was no misuse or neglect and simply my manifolds were not covered because they arbitrary come up with excuses. I was also willing to provide them with my service records to show all had been done to the T based on the factory recommendations.
     
  14. Sloan83qv

    Sloan83qv F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Mar 8, 2001
    2,537
    with BIG Dave M.
    Full Name:
    Little Dave M.
    After reviewing 4i2fly’s actual contract and customer file and all of the supporting documentation and telephone logs, this is an honestly constructed timeline of the claims from 4i2fly to EWC. Our intention here is to show fact, and to show that 4i2fly’s claims were not denied unfairly, and that the claims from 4i2fly did not fall under the terms or conditions of the service agreement that he entered into.

    So that is no misunderstanding on the inspection issue:

    The e-mail that 4i2fly has made available which states the inspection requirement was waived is not in any file or on any computer in EWC office and that to our knowledge it has never been presented to the BBB or the AG of whom 4i2fly has made complaints.
    At this time EWC is not disputing the validity of the e-mail and it does not affect the outcome of 4i2fly’s claim denials.

    May 2004:
    4i2fly purchases an “exotic coverage” type policy directly from EWC. The exotic coverage policy only covers listed items and excludes damage from misuse, weather and consequential issues of non covered items (contract is available for review).

    May 2004:
    A welcome package is sent to 4i2fly that includes an inspection that must be completed by a service facility that has experience on that type of vehicle before a claim can be made. No inspection was ever preformed and up to this date there was no knowledge of any wavier being made. (see above).

    August 25, 2004:
    4i2fly submits a claim for $16,982 for work to be by performed by Ferrari of SF, this was for work that was diagnosed as clogged cats and exhaust and included replacing cats and headers and some other minor items. The claim was denied as the exhaust system and cats are not covered items in the exotic coverage policy that 4i2fly purchased.
    A complaint was made by 4i2fly to the BBB and was it was ultimately decided in EWC’s favor. The inspection issue was not used as a reason to deny claim or defend EWC’s denial in the BBB complaint.
    EWC has no knowledge if the work required as stated in the estimate was ever done and if so when it was done. Ferrari of SF will not confirm or deny that they performed the services that they stated the vehicle needed as submitted in the claim.

    February 2005:
    4i2fly submits a claim in the amount of $6510 from another firm for left side headwork to be done due to “leaking” exhaust valves that were diagnosed 3.5 months earlier in October, 2004 (less then 2 months after the exhaust system was "supposedly" replaced for being clogged). The exact reason of the leakage was never detailed but a exhaust valve problem on more than 1 cylinder would be suspect (it was diagnosed on two cylinders) to being caused by another issue….in this case you had a Ferrari dealership state 2 months earlier (from date of diagnoses) that the cats were clogged. A clogged cat would lead to the overheating of the headers and the exhaust ports, which would lead to damaged exhaust valves, seals or guides.

    This claim was denied for due to items not being covered and there in seems to lay the great dispute, the claim denial while proper should have also stated that the leaking exhaust valves were due to the clogged cats and exhaust system that was diagnosed 2 months prior to the exhaust valves being diagnosed as damaged. This is consider consequential damage from a non-cover item (the “exhaust system” and “cats” being clogged) and therefore is excluded under the “exotic coverage” policy.

    4i2fly them made a claim to AG’s office which EWC responded to and why we used one of the reasons for denial as the lack of inspection we also noted that the item was not covered under policy as written outside of the inspection issue. With regards to the inspection issue please see our position above. From our conversation with the AG’s office today it is EWC understanding that there is no longer and ongoing investigation of the complaint.

    Ben has chosen not participate in this thread because of the misinformation presented in it, and the all-out blood bath that this has been, as well as the uncalled for personal attacks on him as a person. This thread has continued with unprecedented interest and many different battles seem to have been waged in it. This post is being made to prove that this claim was denied honestly and fairly without any intent on simply “not paying a claim”. You rarely will hear anyone make a random post that they had a positive experience with a company. If someone has a negative experience with a company, as 4i2fly did, you will hear about it much sooner and in a greater frequency.

    I’m sure there will be questions relating to this claim, and perhaps even a response by 4i2fly. Although the information above should be sufficient to prove that this claim was not denied unfairly, feel free to ask a question if you are unclear on anything.

    There seems to be an issue over of a context e-mail statement that 4i2fly has posted consequential damage so let me explain: if an item that is covered is damaged and then in turn causes a non covered item to be damaged than that non covered item would be now be covered. It becomes “consequential damage” when you have a non-covered item damage a covered item.

    Paul Sloan
     
  15. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    35,278
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    WOW. A lot has happened here since I was excused yesterday. It took me nearly an hour to catch up on one day's threads...
     
  16. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    You are quoting from a supposed letter that I would like to see as evidence. Post it. Probably totally taken out of context. Again exhaust components are not included that includes CATS and manifolds.
     
  17. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    So if you are driving with clogged CATs as it appears you have according to the bill you sent to EWC you mean you could not have damaged exhaust valves? Well where are our mechanics when we need their advise?
    Do you realize that CATs and Manifolds are part of the exhaust system?

    By the timeline above you tried to get parts paid for that were not covered. The fact that you did not get the inspection done as required and are referring to a letter nobody has seen and you do not post such letter makes me wonder.

    Maybe you just tried to pull a fast on on an insurance company. That my friend is insurance fraud! I would even bet that if an investigator is sent out to your area combing through repair shops out there that they will find an April diagnose of bad CATs, then in May you signed an insurance and right away submitted a claim.

    Now all the wise guys out there. How would you react if you own the warranty company? Kind of smells wouldn't you say? $16,000 bill right after the insurance is signed. I mean, come on! Besides a clogged CAT does not happen overnight. It is a long drawn process. You probably knew you had bad CATs drove on anyway, got the insurance quick and filed a claim.

    Oh well, I guess that did not work out! Like any good insurance company such things raise a red flag! Like you sign a Million Dollar life insurance and turn up dead a day later.

    Please post those letters you supposely got.
     
  18. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    They did ask for the inspection, didn't they?
    Calling some mechanic does not make good for a full inspection of the vehicle.
    Will you do a PPI by calling someone that owned the car before and base your purchase decision soly on his testimony? hell knows when he has seen the car last!

    As I said usually insurance companies want to see the cars they insure prior to getting full coverage activated. This helps them weed out cars that are already damaged.

    Wouldn't you do the same if you owned the company?

    My friend you have tried insurance fraud and you failed! You are owned!
     
  19. matteo

    matteo F1 World Champ

    Aug 1, 2002
    13,748
    On a plane somewhere
    Full Name:
    Heir Butt
  20. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    I'm not on anyone's side at the moment, just asking a question:

    Why wouldn't the cats be covered in the pollution control warranty issued by Ferrari? Was this car modified in some way?
     
  21. Fastviper

    Fastviper F1 Rookie

    Nov 20, 2003
    4,525
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Dash
    Sloan why would you even bring up the inspection?

    If he didnt get the inspection his policy would not be inforced right? Then at that point why did you not give him his money back. If you are using that to say this guy is a fraud. Why when he put in the bill for 16k you didnt say remember in the package we sent you there was an inspection that needed to be done I am sorry but your policy is not in force it never was because we need the inspection paperwork. and here is your refund.

    Ben, this is not a good light on your company, lets see if they never turn in an inspection we can always use that as an excuse for not paying.

    I have talked to Ben on the phone before he seems like a nice guy, I think this is all about not knowing things and growing pains of a business. I hope he gets this worked out.
     
  22. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,333
    SF, Bay Area

    I have no reason to fabricate the email trail...I am open to have my computer inspected by a third party to authenticate the email trail that went through between myself and EWC. I am also open to provide evidence that at the time when the contract was signed the car was under manufacturer warranty and in service for timing belts replacement.

    I am under counsel advice not to disclose details of such failures. I will need not defend myself anymore as I see fit this will be discussed in a more appropriate forum soon enough.
     
  23. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    Good question.
    If the car was almost new and thens till under warranty FNA would cover the CATs and SFO would know that very well. Of course they probably knew that there was more going on than that and that is why they did not even offer the CATS under their manufacturer warranty. Maybe 412ifly likes to track his car excessively and voided the warranty this way.
    A reasonable question is why would the cats fail on a 3 year old car in the first place. Of course subsequent damage caused by the failed CATs would not be covered under dealer warranty or manufacturer warranty either.

    Further my understanding is that you have merely submitted estimates for the $16K work you wanted reimbursed. Did you do the work? If so post the invoice and post the cancelled check where you paid the $16K.
     
  24. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,333
    SF, Bay Area
    As I said I don't have to defend myself to you...there is a valid reason why I cannot discuss this openly, but in due time I will be able to disclose all material evidence and facts if an NDA is not signed.
     
  25. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,333
    SF, Bay Area
    This is a fair questions and I will answer. I had the car in for belts/variators while I had been complaining of power loss. It was discovered that the precats in the manifolds had failed and caused consequent damage to the main cats. Ferrari has despite a finding against them by the state refused to cover it. Since I thought I had a warranty in place I went to them next and in spite of the contract specifically stating that manifolds are covered and that they were the initiating failure the claim was denied. If I had known that Ferrari would not in any way confirm the failure I would have done whatever the warranty co wanted to satisfy their needs for information or proof but I was not informed of Ferrari's position or lack thereof.

    I then decided to persue legal action against Ferrari and now EWC due to the fact that both have refused coverage without giving cause, one in violation of state law.

    Edit: I should also add that the car is not modified in any way and also it has not been tracked extensively.
     

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