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Discussion in 'Report Bugs & Ask Questions' started by noahlh, May 1, 2005.
For the sake of not being repetitious I refer you to my last post.
412fly posted 2 minutes before your post.
Where is he hiding?
I'll be happier when we hear from all those $100,000 + worth of satisfied customers. I am still waiting. We are ALL still waiting.
Is it me, or do others think this thread is getting pointless for the following reasons:
1. With respect to EWC and 412fly, i don't think it serves either sides' interest to be sparring here, however much it might be edifying for the rest of us, since if they are going to litigate, they best marshall their resources there- playing this out on this board will probably yield little new information for the rest of us, either about the merits of 412's claim, or the bona fides of EWC, but both sides do have something to lose by continuing to take positions on this board without the advice of counsel.
2. As to the arguments for a "single happy customer" I trust that if EWC feels the need, and has some, they may post here. I do realize, though, that, such people may then be open to scrutiny, and subjected to ruthless examination by this board to determine if they are genuine, or shills. Thus, the fact that EWC has not put other customers in the center of this website debate does not necessarily create a negative inference that there are no satisfied customers. Just a thought.
3. Despite Sloan's continued campaign here, i honestly think he has done more harm than good. Perhaps, if this is being done with Ben's consent and approval, they might reconsider their PR position here, since i don't think its created much goodwill. (I'm not sure what they should be saying other than, with respect to 412, see you in court, or initiate proceedings themselves, for what amounts to a declaratory judgment on the merits or his claim, or lack thereof).
4. Apart from 412, i don't think we've seen any more "evidence" of denied claims. Certainly the thread should stay open for that purpose, but pissing over each other, and having collateral sparring matches ("Your wife's a doggy") doesn't really advance things, no matter how amusing.
5. I do think this board is a good resource for bring complaints to light, but in addition to reviewing documentary evidence, a trier of fact must assess credibility. It's pretty hard to do that over the 'Net, and I think any judgement we reach based on this thread will be flawed.
See ya a little later. Going to dinner but i'll check back tonite. Regards...
IMO, a negative inference is created when there hasn't been a single existing or past policy holder with absolutely no connection to the company to step forward to express satisfaction.
If a customer is sent here by EWC, their statements MUST be subjected to ruthless examination.
I think Whart was trying to say that it was ok from a legal point of view (as far as not damaging your case) to allow clients to post a positive experience. As if saying, 'dont fight this out on Ferrarichat anymore because there could be legal recourse, but I see no recourse against ECW if they were to allow satisfied customers to post their experiences"
or I could be totally wrong...but thats what I gathered from his post.
Well let's see...get 100 people to buy a warranty from me...collect over $300k in fees, pay out OVER $100k in claims (probably to cousins and such)...deny the rest...buy Diablo(s). Sweeeeet! I figured out how to upgrade the 308!
Note to self...do not post to fChat that I paid out over $100k in claims when I probably took in a boatload more.
EWC probably has more the 100 customers...so they took in a heck of a lot more then $300k. Anyone else grinding numbers?
TMOBILEGUY sent me a PM before I could respond in the split thread and we have kissed and made up.
PSP: I don't know how many EWC customers with claims experience, other than those who already posted, are on this site. (I bought a warranty from them a couple months ago, for a year, for my 6.0, but have not had to make any claims thus far and my experience is therefore meaningless). But, if EWC had to solicit its proverbial "happpy customers" from elsewhere and get them embroiled here, they could be reluctant to do so for at least two reasons- subjecting an existing customer to alot of negative PR, and then thrusting that customer into a cross-examination via this board. I don't disagree that such a person would have to be vetted or scrutinized- that's precisely my point. (I'm not sure this is an appropriate forum to do that- moreover, the fact that somebody has some happy customers will not necessarily show that others were not, in fact, wronged).
I agree that if this were an ideal universe, or if notices were to be sent to each and every customer on EWC's books to relate their experiences, good, bad or indifferent, you could draw a negative inference by no postive responses. (I suspect the science of such surveys would tell you people are more apt to ***** than write a positive review, but i'm not a expert in that field). Sure, so far, the inference here is clear- all negatives and not one postive response, right? But is this representative of his actual customer base? And, is there a reason EWC has refrained from asking "happy customers" to post (other than that there are none)?
I don't know the answer-and i'm not sure any of us will, via this process on the board- that was my final point. We can look at some of the pieces, but that's not how justice is done. (And, again, let me emphasize that i'm not painting a rosy picture here- i just want to be fair).
Given that none of us have all the facts at hand, why not let the courts make a finding based on all of the evidence, since 412i has made his intention to litigate clear?
Paul's statement about the lack of customers on F-Chat and this not being their demographic anyway, shows that they believe there are few, if any potential EWC customers here to impact their business.
Meantime, those who believe there has been wrongdoing can chose to not do business with EWC and those current customers who are feeling uncomfortable can contact the company directly and seek clarification regarding any of their concerns.
The rest of us can get on with our lives and give up the unpaid roles of judge, jury and executioner, that seem to have gleefully been taken on. This thread has served its original purpose and is now degenerating into a pissing contest IMO.
*Suggestion* You be the guinnea pig and call them up and ask if your "frick'n frack'n" is covered cuz you'd like to make a claim and see what they say
Throughout this, Bill has been the most eloquent, fair minded, and rational person posting in this thread. His posts serve to help magnify the fact that most others involved in this thread are flailing their arms and spewing nonsense, IMO.
Whart is always in that position. Very respectable. Napolis is another one that keeps a level head through everything. We all can aspire to that. Especially Paul and I.
Honorary would be the only way to get a higher status. Otherwise it is based on post count.
Food for thought: If you go your year without having to make a claim and thus get no personal experience once way or the other, are you likely to use EWC again (or not) based on observing the goings on in this thread?
This is a great question. I would bet that most are going to hold off their desicions until the whole thing plays out. But the real question is, what if your policy expires before this thing finishes, and you had originally planned to renew...what then? I doubt we will get those answers, unless they could do it anonymously. If a policy holder did state his opinion or his desires, would he be opening a can of worms and subjecting himself to something? I think these are questions that Whart has raised and are real eye openers to a lot of us....i think that definitely could be looked upon as reason why nobody has come out for ECW, that, and the proverbeal witch hunt. I think it goes into the heart of a possible rational why someone would not come out and support ECW.
I can't mention all 16,000 users! OK, all 16,000 users are GREAT!
Hey now, we gotta have some truth tellers in this thread
Rarely? Not quite true... at least on this site. Fchatters actually like to post about their positive (as much as negative) experiences with dealers, insurance and transport companies, products, etc.
I think we're about done here, for now.
The players in this have laid out their positions. It's time to let the chips fall where they may in court, if thats the course chosen by the combatants.
What I can't figure out about Paul and EWC, and I'm going to steal from Shapkespeare, is, "The lad doth protest too much, methinks."
If we're not potential customers, and 412 (and any others) are fibbing, why make such a racket in protest? There aren't any prospects here, according to Paul. None of us own anything but old Ferraris. Why not just pipe down and not worry about this particular court of public opinion?
Because Fchat was, and hopefully for EWC, still is, a huge pool of potential customers.
True or false on the issue of outstanding denied or paid claims; and I'm now prepared to wait and see about those as they play out in court, the issue now is: Would you do business with EWC based on their representatives' behaviors on Fchat?
Have Paul and Ben acquitted themselves well during the course of this thread? Have they rationally explained and supported their position, and laid out what benefits their company can provide an exotic car owner despite what others here have said?
That's what I'm looking at now.
been reading this quietly. my take is:
1) no proof that there are any shiney happy EWC customers.
2) several complaints, and evidence of possible fraud as far as the letter goes regaurding the 'maifold(s)" question.
3) Napolis and Tillman's very well worded and polite questions go unaswered.
4) nanny nanny you fchaters all have "old cars and are not part of our target market".
5) yea genius, there are many mulitple car owners here and a huge silent majority of silent , heavy hitters in the industries that invole exotic cars. and you slap us as a community in the face. brilliant business plan.
damage is done, i wouldnt give EWC any of my money.
There are multiple threads about Ricambi and the job Daniel has done for many of us, as just one example.