I had a similar problem with Warrantec with my BMW M5. I sued them and they paid before an Answer was even due. File suit and good luck.
I am one of those with no dog in this fight, but some of the e-lynching of Ben is more than a little premature. In the digital age, it's WAY too easy to take a good company and try to sink them with a couple of threads containing dirty laundry, aired for all to see. There does seem to be more than a couple of guys with beefs, but those are seperate issues in some way, no? I've also experienced (from my time owning another kind of high-priced car) that many owners of such expensive cars are quick to forget about situations like this over thousands (sometimes even tens of thousands) of dollars, knowing that if they hire a lawyer it will cost much more. Thats too bad because it does everyone a disservice. Seems Noah had a pretty well-reasoned and legitimate beef. Ben's response left a bit to be desired - not in terms of politeness, but rather he didn't IMO address the concerns. He said if he knew it was a rental it would not have been covered. But the contract doesn't say so, and I am inclined to believe Noah that he told them it was a rental and was told it was not an issue. No way to prove what either side said though, so it goes back to what the contract stated. Given that the contract didn't say anything about rentals, and given that Ben said that the car would be covered (I assume because he realizes it was his mistake not to specify no coverage of rentals), my questions are -Why wasn't the starter covered? -Why wasn't the manifold covered? It does say "manifolds" (plural) so I don't see how they can say they didn't mean exhaust -Ben talks about an initial inspection where some problems were uncovered that later were claimed and denied. Fair enough. But was the TCU problem uncovered at the inspection? If not, shouldn't it be covered? Is there any reason, other than 'gut feeling' that it did not just fail after some days/weeks after the inspection? The part about Noah allegedly trying to get warranty coverage of stuff that was pre-existing, and about him being wrong about who he talked to... Ok, isn't that all just about discrediting Noah? Ok, fine, but doesn't that open up the can of worms for other people to tell their stories and see who has more credibility? It seems thats whats happening and Ben ain't winning that argument, with lots saying they know Noah and his company are good, and 4 so far lodging complaints against Ben. Contracts exist to remove the ambiguity (or, lets face it, deceitfulness) of the spoken word. From what Noah posted, how come the manifold was not covered, and the starter? Not sure on the TCU issue. And why was coverage said to be denied due to it being a rental when the contract says nothing about that? These are BIG questions that need answered and no answer has come yet. The reason they need to be answered is because people are buying these warranties for peace of mind. If claims are being illegitimately denied and the answer is "well we know thats not what the contract said but thats what we meant, and if you don't like it just sue us", then that's pretty poor IMO. I am interested in the explanation of why these things were denied and if Ben acknowledges he is in the wrong on those? In closing, it's too early to bury this guy and wish him Ch.7, but its definitely interesting reading for anyone who searches the forums. Seems the ratio of good:bad experiences is 0:4 right now. I have no idea how many customers of EWC have read this thread, but until something balances out that 4, who'se to say it's not 0:100 or 0:1000? If we knew some had good experiences, it would say alot to folks stumbling on this thread in the future. Hopefully it all works out for BOTH parties. Ben offers a valuable service, so long as it's being provided (and consumed) in a professional manner.
RobGCT- Is your statement based on anything other than what was posted here? In view of the tenor of this thread, the seriousness of it to the parties involved, and the fact that, as far as i know, you have no involvement in this matter other than as a casual, but vocal, bystander, it might make sense for you to refrain from adding your inflamatory, and possibly actionable, commentary. That of course, is a suggestion i already politely made, but since you seem so persistent, maybe you have another reason? Please tell us, since you obviously think you have some basis to make these statements....
""A person that is running their exotic car as a business is another can-of-worms?"" Selling a warranty to an exotic car owner can be a smart business move. You know that most people take great care of their car and drive them only on sunny days.... low miles. You can calculate a fair fee based on the risk for that type of polycy (maybe $3,000 a year). But!...selling a warranty to a rental car company.... That has to be a completely different calculation. You might be able to sell protection for $3,000 to a private owner. But, I'd need at least $30,000 a year to warranty a rental 360 that was getting hard-use by different drivers on a daily account. Actually I would think a rental Ferrari company would need to have a mechanic on staff.. to keep the car running? This entire thread started (in part) because a commercial company bought a private policy.
Here's the letter EWC's Cheryl sent to State of Alabama, I have blacked out the last names for individual protection. I also have other supporting document. The exhaust valves were denied because they are part of the exhaust system even though the contract specifies valvetrain based on the contract below: Engine: Cylinder block, heads, and all lubricated internal engine parts; manifolds; timing gears, timing gear cover; flywheel; oil pump/oil pump housing; water pump; harmonic balancer; valve covers; oil pan and engine mounts; crankshaft bearings; valve train; crankshaft seals - front and rear; camshaft bearings, connecting rods and bearings." I have an email from Judy (the companys sales manager), which clearly states I do not have to submit to pre-inspection since at the time of purchase the car was in mfg. warranty. But they keep stating that I have not submitted a pre-inspection at the time of purchase. She also claiming I had 10 days to file dispute which I did within a day in writing and still they use that as means to deny my claim. I am sure the reasoning why the valves are not covered is self-explanatory and shows how the company tries to deny coverage based on their interpretation of the contract. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I still stand behind what I said on the first page of this thread. I see it AT LEAST three times a week.
Well, I don't know what went wrong but I have to find another way of posting that letter to black out the last names.
I agree with most of what you are saying, I have no bias or vested interest in this other than I hate to see people scammed. EWCs reply said all that was needed to form my opinion that basically Noah was a liar and defaming his company unfairly while using this board as extortion or leverage to get the result he wanted, then next his immediate cave in to pay him off and sweep this issue under the rug. If there are others that have something positive to say about his company other than him happily taking their money lets hear it. I am just calling it as I see it with the repeated patterns of denying legit claims many times. You do have a vested interest as you made a significant investment in his services that you will get what you paid for and were not taken advantage of which is very understandable.
Frank's right. If they know they owe you the money, just sending a letter from your lawyer will get you paid. I did it twice years ago. Sombody hit my VW, their ins said they would not fix it (they wanted to total it). My stepdad (lawyer) mailed a letter. My check came right away. It happened the same way both times. Proof the ins company was trying to screw me. They were not afraid of me or him. They just knew they owed me the damages and simply did not want to pay. After I lawyered-up they folded.
CROWD: A witch! A witch! A witch! We've got a witch! A witch! VILLAGER #1: We have found a witch, might we burn her? CROWD: Burn her! Burn! BEDEMIR: How do you know she is a witch? VILLAGER #2: She looks like one. BEDEMIR: Bring her forward. WITCH: I'm not a witch. I'm not a witch. BEDEMIR: But you are dressed as one. WITCH: They dressed me up like this. CROWD: No, we didn't... no. WITCH: And this isn't my nose, it's a false one. BEDEMIR: Well? VILLAGER #1: Well, we did do the nose. BEDEMIR: The nose? VILLAGER #1: And the hat -- but she is a witch! CROWD: Burn her! Witch! Witch! Burn her! BEDEMIR: Did you dress her up like this? CROWD: No, no... no ... yes. Yes, yes, a bit, a bit. VILLAGER #1: She has got a wart. BEDEMIR: What makes you think she is a witch? VILLAGER #3: Well, she turned me into a newt. BEDEMIR: A newt? VILLAGER #3: I got better. VILLAGER #2: Burn her anyway! CROWD: Burn! Burn her! BEDEMIR: Quiet, quiet. Quiet! There are ways of telling whether she is a witch. CROWD: Are there? What are they? BEDEMIR: Tell me, what do you do with witches? VILLAGER #2: Burn! CROWD: Burn, burn them up! BEDEMIR: And what do you burn apart from witches? VILLAGER #1: More witches! VILLAGER #2: Wood! BEDEMIR: So, why do witches burn? [pause] VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...? BEDEMIR: Good! CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah... BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood? VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her. BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone? VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah. BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water? VILLAGER #1: No, no. VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats! VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond! CROWD: The pond! BEDEMIR: What also floats in water? VILLAGER #1: Bread! VILLAGER #2: Apples! VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks! VILLAGER #1: Cider! VILLAGER #2: Great gravy! VILLAGER #1: Cherries! VILLAGER #2: Mud! VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches! VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead! ARTHUR: A duck. CROWD: Oooh. BEDEMIR: Exactly! So, logically..., VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood. BEDEMIR: And therefore--? VILLAGER #1: A witch! CROWD: A witch! BEDEMIR: We shall use my larger scales! [yelling] BEDEMIR: Right, remove the supports! [whop] [creak] CROWD: A witch! A witch! WITCH: It's a fair cop. CROWD: Burn her! Burn!
In the interest of accuracy I was involved in filing a claim for 4i2fly who was, when I made the post not participatory in this thread. I will say though that although the woman I talked with on several occasions was very nice and polite, was the only contact offered me and had little or no knowledge of the contract. When she called to inform me that the claim was being rejected she was apologetic but was unable to give any information of any substance on the grounds of the rejection. At that time I turned it over to the policy holder.
Thats just the kind of Company I want to do business with, one that I need to fight tooth and nail for everything, waste my time and disrupt my life just to get what I paid for.
No one has posted a positive experience about EWC, while four (three because rifledriver and 412 are the same) have posted negative experiences. Certainly not an indicator of fraud, but perhaps an indicator of a business you don't want to be involved with?
I have received a tracking number for the check Ben sent, and will post when it arrives tomorrow. --Noah
I REALLY like the part about denying exhaust valves because they are part of the exhaust system! (While stating that valve train components are covered) <cue: David Slade pic> I think a refund of the purchase price does nothing to right these wrongs, if they are indeed true. I like many others here would love to see the great number of happy customers come forward with their glowing stories. Or maybe one happy customer. BTW, if Cheryl of Sheryl was working there "off the books" there is a lot of state and Federal tax fraud problems as well.
Since I edited my earlier post and may have been burried with others I am reposting it again, the letter is very explicit and all wrong: Here's the letter EWC's Cheryl sent to State of Alabama, I have blacked out the last names for individual protection. I also have other supporting document. The exhaust valves were denied because they are part of the exhaust system even though the contract specifies valvetrain based on the contract below: Engine: Cylinder block, heads, and all lubricated internal engine parts; manifolds; timing gears, timing gear cover; flywheel; oil pump/oil pump housing; water pump; harmonic balancer; valve covers; oil pan and engine mounts; crankshaft bearings; valve train; crankshaft seals - front and rear; camshaft bearings, connecting rods and bearings." I have an email from Judy (the companys sales manager), which clearly states I do not have to submit to pre-inspection since at the time of purchase the car was in mfg. warranty. But they keep stating that I have not submitted a pre-inspection at the time of purchase. She also claiming I had 10 days to file dispute which I did within a day in writing and still they use that as means to deny my claim. I am sure the reasoning why the valves are not covered is self-explanatory and shows how the company tries to deny coverage based on their interpretation of the contract. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Out of curiosity, how does the cost of the premium refund you are getting compare to the cost of the claimed warranty repair? Are you recovering 100% of your costs, or just a fraction thereof?
Interesting: Ben's autobiography from his web site, interesting educational background: About Ben: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I first started Slantback.com as a place to dump pictures of cars I owned for memory sake and to share them with family and friends. As time progressed, quite a few people now look at this site. After receiving quite a few emails asking what the heck this car collection was for or what I did for a living, etc.., I created this page to save you some time. I was born on October 19th, 1979. Up until my middle-school years, life was fairly normal and uneventful. I moved to South Carolina from New York when I turned 16. My first real job was with Conterra Communications right after I moved down South. At the time, Conterra was a startup company that served dialup accounts. My computer knowledge was strong and growing at the time, but was put to the ultimate test at Conterra where I grew more than I could imagine there. Essential people played a role in this development of customer service skills, web design, server configurations, and growing up. Jeff McElroy, Stuart Anderson and Neil Crotts were the big three that helped me learn the business world. Jeff above all was my mentor. Every business skill I learned came from Jeff. In an successful attempt to further my development, I quit High School in the 9th grade to attend community college. One semester of community college and that was it for me. I continued to work. Just before turning 18, my health was troublesome. Feeling groggy, weak, irritable, and losing significant weight. I left my post at Conterra and moved back home to Syracuse NY to live with my parents since they had medical insurance. It turned out that I was Type I Diabetic, which means that before each meal and before bed I inject a needle filled with Insulin to control my blood-sugar. Sympathy aside, it's not bad at all. The syringes don't cause pain, and the insulin is a rDna recombiant, which means it's the same stuff every human produces. There's not much chance of losing legs or anything like that anymore. Everyone knows a diabetic who had a leg chopped off. Not in this world with our technology these days. Anyone who is newly diagnoes diabetic will live a long and healthy life as long as you follow some basic guidelines. Moving back to Syracuse NY allowed closer contact with a friend, Tim Tibbetts. Tim and I were great friends before I moved to South Carolina. When I returned from SC to NY, we both started 3DFILES.COM. A few years later, May 1999, we sold the website to ZDNet (Now C|Net) in a multi-million dollar contract. Otherwise, there would be no possible way to afford the toys that I do. Well, kinda. Then come 3DCOOL.COM. While continuing work with C|Net after the sale, I also owned a computer cooling fan manufacturing and retail corporation, 3DCOOL.COM Inc.. In year 2000 we grossed over $2,000,000.00 in sales. Not too bad for our first full year in business. In reality all we do is make/sell cooling solutions for computers on the web. 3DCOOL.COM has since been sold to LHM Enterprises of Pittsford, NY. They still maintain the company and a steady stream of loyal customers. Next, the focus was on Counter Intelligence Solutions Group, Inc.. We've been around since August 2001. Our primary focus at CISG is "Technical Surveillance Counter-Measures" -- TSCM. TSCM is also commonly referred to as electronic debugging or sweep services. We will find any hidden transmitters, microphones, tape recorders, telephone taps, etc.. In addition to the TSCM work, we also stock a full line of covert video products, bug detection, armored vehicles, bullet resistant clothing, night vision, bomb detectors, telephone scramblers, lie detection products, and more. We have a great time. This company was sold to a Rochester NY individual in January 2004, and his plans are to expand upon the covert video camera side. We still retain the rights to the CISG name and to the TSCM operations. Currently, I operate two companies on a daily basis. The first is Fidelity Worldwide, based out of Montgomery, AL. Fidelity is a licensed underwriter for automobile service contracts and other maintenance products. With that also comes The Exotic Warranty Company, which is Fidelity's marketing arm for the exotic service contracts. The vehicles covered are limitless and include such prestige vehicles as Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc... While operating boty Fidelity and Exotic, I also purchased a mini restaurant chain named Old Main Street Cafe & Baking Company. I've always wanted to try the restaurant business, and this was the best opportunity I found. There are two locations, the first in Palmetto, FL and the second in Ellenton, FL. In May 2004, the restaurant was sold to a local businessman looking to expand his portfolio of businesses and diversify with the two restaurants. Fun business, but not one where you can make much money -- if any! My current home is in Saraspta FL on the border of Manatee and Sarasota County. My non-business hobbies include certified coin collecting and bullion trading, computer gaming, and lots of movies. I'm also an avid USPSA IPSC shooter and travel across the country year-round to compete in competitions. Hope you enjoyed the bio. [email protected]
IMHO Based upon your quoting of the contract and Her letter to the AG. She has committed CRIMINAL FRAUD. "and all lubricated internal engine parts;" Contract. "The exhaust system is not a listed part" Cheryl on behalf of Ben's Co. EXHAUST VALVES ARE LUBRICATED INTERNAL ENGINE PARTS. IMO if Ben is aware of this response to the AG he is committing criminal fraud as well. William, Art, am I wrong about this?
Had these vehicles had EWC warranties, I wonder which repairs would be covered? http://www.slantback.com/maintenance.shtml
Just as an fyi from someone who's been selling exotics for a while, I have no direct experience with EWC although people I had worked with did sell a few contracts to customers. I have to say that I have never (and I mean NEVER) heard of a major claim being paid by any 'exotic' warranty company. I am by no means suggesting that these companies don't ever pay, just that I've never seen it happen and I handled a good amount of the service scheduling, logistics, and customer support in the event of mechanical issues with cars we as a company had sold. As I recall, there was a company based out of Ft. Lauderdale who did exactly as earlier described, collecting money from customers and issuing policies, filing bankruptcy, and running maybe 3 years ago (bad memory, might have been 2 years), although the rumor I had heard was that the underwriting company for them (ACSC if memory serves) had never received many of the policies or $ when purchased. Prior to this having happened, a few of my co-workers who had been around longer than myself had warned me about even offering to sell these aftermarket warranties to people, as many would come back and hold the sales person accountable when claims were not paid (as they inevitably weren't - their words, not mine). The gist of their advice was that selling an aftermarket warranty would almost certainly result in an unhappy customer who would blame you for their subsequent dismay. I've never sold one, and never plan to.
