the F40 is undervalued

We sell lots of F40s, these days the acquisition method is always cash.

 

sure is starting to look that way

 

could happen. what do you want to own in that environment? id sell my stocks to keep my f40!

 

F40 of course.

There'll be plenty that'll lose their shirt, even those that bought their F40 cash. Their business(es) slows down, those in real estate will be similarly affected, bag holders in the stock market...

 

No one knows the future, but it seems you called it right.

So- what stocks should we own?


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You don't lose anything if you don't sell your F40.

 

Some may be forced to.

 

Regardless of the moniker “bought with cash” a number of guys who did so used lines of credit on various inflated assets to acquire said capital. Few own up to the debt publicly but on the credit side it’s apparent and a multiple Ferrari dealer guys have told me about the various loans going on behind the scenes. Some people won’t care if prices are up, down, or sideways. Others will be forced to liquidate as lines reset, call, or expire. What’ll be interesting to see is how that change in scarcity impacts the market and how the potential lack of buyers at todays prices will effect values.

 

If any of them have no story low mile f50s at 1.5m im a buyer!

 

Unlikely, the ownership landscape for F40s is much evolved from 10 years ago, the type of guy I sell an F40 to is very wealthy and the F40 is a relatively small asset acquisition, meanwhile if my phone does start blowing up with F40 owners looking to sell I'll happily share same here.

We are talking F40s, not the Ferrari new car market in general, the so-called 'loans behind the scenes' you refer to might be FFS program which many owners use to acquire the newer vehicles, meanwhile the F40 is a classic at this point and I haven't seen an F40 purchased with a loan in 10 years, and, I'll be surprised to see any more F40s on the market than the typical handful you always have.

I do think though that as is always the case, a recession will impact the newer Ferraris, many of which are financed.

 

The “so-called” loans behind the scenes statement is derived directly from talking to GMs and sales guys of a few Ferrari dealerships I frequent. Not all of them are talking of Ferrari Financial Services loans, though I’m told several use that service as Ferrari routinely lends on vintage/classic cars of which the F40 qualifies and they do so with quite favorable terms which appeals to the payment or arbitrage crowd. I’ve heard the usual prime market lenders also provide financing for these cars too.

But all of that aside the reality is you as a seller, broker, auctioneer, or whatever moniker you operate under have absolutely no idea where the funds that pay for car sales you are involved in derive from. It would be impossible for you to know despite what you may glean from the buyer. Even if a buyer came to you with cash in a briefcase you don’t know if that cash was pulled out of an account that was funded by a HELOC, margin/portfolio loan, or any other financing tool.

Time will tell but I suspect this go around there are more guys playing the investment game with what they believe are guaranteed investments in vintage Ferraris. It’s all some guys on here can talk about anymore - a statement not limited to F40s or Ferraris for that matter. If that’s the case then the guys with payments, guys who live at the edge of income and see a slump in that, and guys who need quick liquidity etc will be sellers when the market turns and that’ll impact volume of cars on the market which in turn will effect prices. The tide is shifting so we’ll see what it all looks like in 12-18 months when expected recession pain kicks in.

 

As opposed to general chit-chat with Ferrari staff at showrooms you happen to frequent as a means of drawing conclusions, I am regularly and directly involved on a professional basis with actual deals involving multiple GMs and Ferraris Sales Directors in the Ferrari North America dealer network, so I can tell you with some authority that F40s (the topic of this thread), are generally not financed, other cars may be, that's my point.

As for where the money comes from, I disagree, generally we do know exactly where the funds come from, with long-term relationships with many of our clients, we know exactly what field they are in, and therefore therefore the source of the funds, they speak to us openly about this, for example if our client who's been the CEO of a publicly traded company for the past 15 years has just sold a million shares and decides to starts expanding his collection, we are clear on where the funds came from. Ditto the medical doctor who has just sold his multi-location practice and tells us so. So too the member of a Royal or affluent family. We try to deal with established people because that's good for repeat business, and therefore we generally have a vested interest in knowing where the money's coming from. By the way in 30 years of screwing with cars, nobody ever brought me a briefcase full of cash, and if they ever do I'll be sure to take a picture just for you. By 'cash' I mean outright purchase using funds wired from a private bank account which is how it is 99% of the time. We pay attention to not only the owner landscape but to the economics of our various clients because that affects our business. Even with a new client we don't know, its not difficult nowadays to do some due-diligence and within an hour establish what your client's source of income is.

Again, I don't see more F40s coming in the market than the handful that are usually there. The investment talk related to vintage and Supercars has been there for the past 15 years, its nothing new, indeed let's review in the next 12-18 months as your predicted timeline outlines and see if the market is flooded with F40s going for $1m.

 

Then again… There are those of us with one foot on the pedal and one foot on a banana peel. Rich man, poor man, we all end up at the same place.


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That was then. Boomers were just coming out the gate. Today, we’re looking at the last chance for romance.


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Joe, you might have met your match in JAM. Jus saying.

 

But, you're gonna have to catch me first. Come sunrise, I'll be gone.

 

I'd say my understanding of dealer sales goes a bit beyond "general chit-chat" as of the companies I own (in trust) is a capital finance business that provides financing and floorplan to high end dealers so I've got what I believe is more than a passing understanding of their retail customer and how they're funding their purchases since the success of our returns for that segment is predicated on a sound market. I'm also not sure why you believe "a wire from a private bank account" couldn't possibly have been funded by a loan since many clients at the tier we're talking about routinely utilize the loans I've described be it for cashflow management and/or arbitrage. Just because a buyer doesn't provide a loan collateral document or a check from a lender doesn't mean it's not ultimately coming from a loan and much of what I've seen points to exactly that - loans being used instead of cash as the "investment" side of the market is effecting how guys buy these cars. This happens even more so in the price tier we're discussing than say a Mercedes or Porsche... the values almost dictate it.

 

Again, you're talking about the Ferrari market in general and the financing of Ferraris.

I'm talking about just F40s.

And as far as F40s are concerned I'm sticking with my experienced viewpoint, your comment that I have "no idea where the funds that pay for car sales you are involved in derive from" is incorrect at least for us, because in most cases we have a relationship with our clients that affords us the understanding of how they are paying for the cars as I explained above, in fact the source of the funds is often openly discussed before the purchase is made.

 

Does anyone have any additional info on the car below? Any interesting details/history?

To my knowledge the car was delivered new to Italy, spent time in Japan and is now up for sale in Switzerland.

https://www.classicdriver.com/de/car/ferrari/f40/1990/917821

Thanks

 

More stunned at the fact you bothered to reply with such a question. I am simply looking for information and posted it in another thread too.

Asking for info wasn't a crime last time I checked... Should the post have interfered too much with any topics being discussed, feel free to delete/have it deleted.

 

above estimate, more than 10K miles, and needs bladders soon
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89982 at Gstaad on Friday 1st July 2022.
Never officially road registered in Switzerland, sold with Swiss Tax Form 13.20.

Marcel Massini

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