The F50 Thread | Page 152 | FerrariChat

The F50 Thread

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari/F80' started by amenasce, Dec 28, 2010.

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  1. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
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    Joe Mansion
  2. Solid State

    Solid State F1 World Champ
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Fabulous! Red and black laces. Learned something. Thank you.
     
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  3. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Formula Junior

    Oct 2, 2014
    563
    My pleasure.
     
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  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    FWIW Damgaard Nielsen A/S Automobiler in Lillerod, Denmark, is the official dealer, not the name of the first owner of 106520.
    That was Mr. R. B.
    Car was used on Danish license plates "CW 53 28".
    Assembly #23693.
    Build #206/349.
    12 September 1996 build start.
    15 October 1996 completion date,
    Gearbox #318.
    Body #150.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
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    Joe Sackey
    Thanks for further clarification Marcel, much appreciated.
     
  6. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,760
    Santa Monica, CA
    and?
     
  7. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,760
    Santa Monica, CA
    Yea, I own an original 288 GTO set of books and records that some one got duplicated like this. Always wonder if it's worth calling him out or just sit back and observe. (BS is what it really is)
     
  8. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    #3784 PAUL500, Oct 22, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2022
    Wow, has to be the GOAT of all F50s out there? exactly as it left Maranello, not a bolt ever touched, oil ever changed and still with original 90s Italian air in the tyres no doubt!

    A classic example of "They are only original once"

    Whilst I am a huge advocate of use and enjoy as much as possible, its great to see at least one of every example remaining like this for posterity.
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,739
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    Steven Robertson
    Somebody should let Du Pont Registry know that the F50 has a 4.7 litre engine, not a 3.5 litre engine. Yes, I know it was derived from a 3.5 litre F1 engine.

    Introduced in 1995 and powered by an F1-derived naturally-aspirated 3.5-liter V12, the F50 is one of the carmaker’s rarest and most recognizable models.
     
  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    #3786 miurasv, Oct 22, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2022
    26 years of no maintenance with not even an oil change?
     
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  11. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Michael
    i suspect this was addressed while being stored.
    this is not a barn find.

    But if not there is always This: Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
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    Joe Sackey
    Well you've given us all a perfect example of the reason why Ferrari SpA created the Duplicato program!

    In your case, you say you possess the original books & records of a 288 GTO and also happen to know the current owner of the car to which those items belong, I would think therefore the right thing to do would be to make the current owner aware that you have the books & records that belong to his car, and make them available to him, either for free or at a mutually agreeable number. He can hardly be blamed for securing Duplicato books at not inconsiderable time & expense from Ferrari SpA on the basis that his car's original books & records are permanently missing because you haven't come forward. Duplicato books are clearly so stamped, so there's nothing to hide or call out.

    A client of mine paid 5 figures for the return of his original 288 GTO books from a well-known dealer who demanded that sum. On the other hand, in my travels years ago I once discovered a set of books belonging to a renowned Ferrari Supercar, it took me 1 year to track down the car's current owner and when I did I gave them to him - for free. Today he's one my most prominent clients. Each to their own.

    Gents, so much speculation, even though it has only 179 kms it's been serviced, the sellers have told me that among other things, the fuel bladders were done just 3 years ago by an authorized Ferrari SpA dealer.
     
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  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    #3789 miurasv, Oct 22, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2022
    There is nothing in the below description or the Collectors Garage web site here about the service history/maintenance this car has had in its 26 years. Why omit what maintenance it's had, and its provenance, which are very important considerations for any prospective purchaser of it?

    Chassis No. ZFFTA46B000106520

    With only 349 examples produced of the F50, production number 206 of 349 may very well be the reference example. With only 179 km from new it is quite likely the lowest mileage example in the world. In fact, very little has changed since delivery to Damgaard Nielsen Ferrari of Denmark on 19 December 1996. With the rise of 'instant collectibles' and the seemingly endless flood of new cars from manufacturers today, it only takes a few clicks of a mouse to find the newest undriven supercar. However, the F50 represents something different entirely with only 349 examples and Ferrari's final open-top, manual V12 supercar.

    The lowest mileage example to come to market in the past decade had 1,318 km (819 miles). Production number 206 is in a different category entirely with only 179 km from new. Furthermore, if one were to omit the 1,318 km example from consideration, the next example would be a comparatively 'well driven' 1,100 mile (1,770 km) example before working one's way further down the ranks to a typical example with 5-10,000 miles. Finding a true delivery mileage F50 was thought to be virtually impossible.

    Those who have inspected or are familiar with any 1990s supercar know that condition is paramount. Mileage is only one measure of a car and other aspects of condition can become apparent if one were to only look at the odometer. While the odometer may indicate 'as-new' condition, one will not be disappointed when looking over 206. The Alcantara dash, which customarily suffers from stretching and subsequent wrinkles due to sunlight is pristine, presumably from never leaving the garage. Further still it has been known for the carbon fiber to yellow and brown overtime with heat cycles and UV exposure - a phenomenon which is absent here. Of course, it goes without saying with only 179 km the underside of the nose has not suffered the usual rash from curbs or speed bumps.

    Fully Classiche certified in March 2018 with all original engine, chassis, and body, 206 of 349 is offered with flight case, roll bars, soft top, books, three-piece luggage, tools, and the ultra-rare F50 flashlight. With luggage still in the original bubble wrap, original tape on the flight case, and a mere 179 km, a collector looking for absolute perfection would be hard pressed to find a better preserved example.
     
  14. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    True, those are important considerations which they should mention, but just because they didn't for whatever reason doesn't mean the car has existed for 26 years of no maintenance with not even an oil change. The description seems pretty short for such a special car, perhaps a more expansive and detailed piece which includes all it's service history would benefit everyone, no question.
     
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  15. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Formula Junior

    Oct 2, 2014
    563
    As I mentioned before, quality in a supercar has many dimensions. Mileage is only one of them, albeit of significant importance in valuation. Whether mileage is as low as 1,300 miles or 130 miles, is quite unique but by far not sufficient. To me an exceptional supercar, needs to excel on the many different dimensions of quality and not simply having ulta-low mileage.

    Let me illustrate by an example, namely F50 KS. Below are key dimensions of quality (in bold) and a brief but comprehensive description of where the car stands on each of these to get a clear first impression:

    I. Condition: Absolute mint and concours condition throughout (exterior, interior, boot, engine bay, and ‘under the skin’). Mechanically perfect.

    II. Originality: Original car. Paint shows extraordinary weave throughout including front and back bumpers. Classiche certified with red book confirming the F50 retains its original chassis, engine, gearbox, body, suspension and all other major components. Complete original exhaust including air injection system. Over forty original Ferrari carbon composite manufacturers’ labels on the car. Retains its Certificate of Origin, signed by Chairman of Ferrari SpA on 23 February 1996.

    III. Mileage: 5,235 miles (8,425 km). The mileage is genuine and traceable from delivery to the present through detailed history documentation (four large folders).

    IV. Maintenance & Service: Full Ferrari Service History: eleven service stamps in the Warranty & Service Book. Every 10 years the car goes through a major maintenance big birthday. So, in 2012, it received new Ferrari fuel cells, a new lift motor, new set of Pirelli tyres, and a major service by official Ferrari dealer Eberlein for €35,000. In 2022, it received an engine-out full mechanical & cosmetic re-fresh by DK Engineering: £65,000.

    V. Provenance: Owner #1: Germany; 1996 to 1999; Mileage 0 km to 4,819 km. Owner #2: UK; 1999 to 2000; Mileage 4,819 km to 6,150 km. Owner #3: Germany, 2000 to 2011; Mileage 6,150 km to 7,335 km. Owner #4: UK; 2012 to present; Mileage 7,335 km to 8,425 km.

    VI. History Documentation: four large folders of comprehensive history from delivery in 1996 to the present containing, in chronological order, various documents on ownerships, maintenance, services, ect. Official German Ferrari dealer Eberlein certified the history (with mileage progression) for the period starting from the car’s delivery in 1996 until the purchase by the current owner in January 2012.

    VII. Books: Retains original four books: warranty & service, owner’s manual, sales organisation, & direct line services.

    IIX. Toolkit: Retains complete & correct 4-piece tool set: 2 tool bags, wheel nut with pouch, & tyre inflator with pouch.

    IX. Accessories: Includes all original accessories: soft & hard roof with tonneau, hoops & flight box; build pictures & box; 3-piece luggage with straps, name tags, keys, & dust covers; working courtesy lamp; car cover & bag, seat & steering wheel covers; Tod’s custom boots with box, shoe laces (red pair & black pair), & dust covers; sales book, information pack; launch promotional video; lithographs set; ’95 launch poster; ’95 yearbook.

    X. Featured Media: Featured in four Top Gear magazines (2014, 2015, 2018). Featured in a 3-minute Top Gear video on the Bloodline Collection (over ½ million views on YouTube). Main car used in the reference video Ferrari F50 Insights: Stressed Member Engine, by DK Engineering TV (2022). Featured extensively in the forthcoming book Ferrari Bloodline celebrating the 288 GTO, F40, F50, & Enzo through the Bloodline Collection supercars.


    I need to see the original Warranty & Service book as well as the various service stamp across the life of the car:

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    as well as a detailed and thorough history across the car's life

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    The complete accessories also helps

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    So let us not undermine mileage and especially ultra low one but let us not forget the other dimensions, some of which are so fundamental to true quality.
     
  16. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    8,421
    Bournemouth, UK
    No one cares about the driving attributes of the car?
     
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  17. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    If you seek a driver then simply purchase ones that has been driven.

    This example is a static art piece now, with under 200 miles under its belt it has not needed maintenance, and never will, as those miles will never be added to! Given its condition in the photos it has clearly been properly stored all those years which is the most important thing with regards this F50
     
  18. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #3794 miurasv, Oct 23, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2022
    Cars not driven still need maintenance and adjustments. Many components deteriorate over time such as oils, rubbers, belts, tyres, fuel cells, coolant. Cars also need to be driven/run to prevent moving components seizing up. People buying a delivery mileage car will be buying it on the basis that it will also be like new mechanically, as well as cosmetically, that could be driven as a new car, even if it isn't, which will certainly not be the case for an unmaintained/neglected car.
     
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  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    Time waits for no man, or car either.
     
  20. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Formula Junior

    Oct 2, 2014
    563
    Correct. To be truly original it needs to drive as originally not simply retain the original parts including the perishable or deteriorated ones. In cars, originality is not only about a material object but about functionality as well.
     
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  21. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    #3797 PAUL500, Oct 23, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2022
    Only for them to deteriorate once again after replacement if that is the case, as this car will never be driven again anyway. As it stands it is a frozen moment in time, nothing on that car will be seized and I have with my own hands restored plenty of cars over the years.

    Have the rubber soles of the race boots perished as it will be the same age of the rubber on the car? and should they also be replaced as a result of age?

    With your own examples Karim you are seeking to get back to this level of originality, where as this one has never strayed from it.

    Horses for courses, there is an example out there for everyones tastes and desires :) if they have the funds
     
  22. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #3798 miurasv, Oct 23, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2022
    That is the necessary price that must be paid if the car is to kept operational and fully maintained throughout its life. A fully maintained delivery mileage car is > a non maintained delivery mileage car.
     
  23. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    When you come to sell this F50, all the aforementioned will certainly put it in a class of it's own.

    A word on the accessories - as I practice the selling of these cars, the question that I get asked most often is: what accessories actually came with this particular car from the factory? In most cases, the accessories are less items than you have assembled, but that doesn't seem to affect pricing.
     
  24. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Formula Junior

    Oct 2, 2014
    563
    I always had a feeling that may be the value-addition of accessories might not be what I thought it should be or commensurate to the corresponding effort. But, still, it was a matter of principle and a seeking of perfection with the corresponding pleasure rather than a pursuit of financial interest.
    In due time, I will be simply happy to pass on such a unique object in better or more complete form.
     
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