THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

Some of you guys live in the past. We have to build cars of the future...not to live just with past ghost.

 

We have to? I thought those of us who build cars got to build what we want.

As for buying what one wants people do. Do you think a Luca era Ferrari will ever sell for more than an Enzo era Ferrari? There are a number who would rather live with a 250 GTO, "a past ghost" as you refer to it than a new Enzo.

I agree that it's important to build the lastest. The difference for me is that the Last Ferrari Supercar that could be raced without turning it into a Maserati was the F40. That may not matter to some but to some of us it does.

 

Why is an F40 more of a race car than the Enzo? Both can be turned into race cars. The FXX after all is a race version of the Enzo, even though it does not qualify for official racing.

Each to his own but I am 100% with arhimede on this one! The past is just a place of lower performance.

 

Well, the comparison is not fair. Modern art is usually less valued than the classics. Maybe with more time...

In any case: different times, different cars. Arhimede is right in one thing: the old times will never come back, so it´s imposible to make cars like they were 50 years ago.

 

you are right, you can build what you want, but P4/5 is part of Ferrari legacy. I don't think P4/5 could be built without Lucas era Ferrari. The car is a mutual benefit for you and for Ferrari.

I think Luca has very good intentions, with him Ferrari become a top brand, with unmatched products. 360 was gorgeous, 430 was great, 458 is already a legend;550/575 become modern clasic, 599 is still a mega car with stunning looks even now that is replaced, F12 will be at least what is 458 for the v8 supercars.

Maybe the F50 wasn't the match for the F40's legend, although an intoxicating supercar, and maybe Enzo didn't respond to your expectation.

But there were a huge number of disappointing F cars born before Enzo's death.


As far as i know Luca was closest possibile to Enzo from 40 years ago. I think there is nobody better except Enzo to build a ferrari.

I am sure cars like P3/4 are a dream, but 2012 Ferrari company can't live building cars of the past.

 

If I may chip in, I find the F50 greater than the F40 and the Enzo the greatest of them all. A good friend recently drove the ex-Agnelli F40 (the only clutchless one in the world) and found it apalling really after his relatively modest 430.

 

Based on what personal experience do you find this to be so? Pray tell.

 

True.

Which is also why some people prize, desire & covet them so much, as evidenced by what some of them are valued at.

 

As far as Ferrari not offering the F70 to some of you(yet), there's always a chance not to be on the top few hundred people for Ferrari, but i don't think Ferrari doesn't want to build the car for someone that is ready to pay close to 1.5mill dollars. And if it doesn't, you will always buy the car in the future, if your attachment to Ferrari is bigger than your hurt ego.

Is true that for F40/F50/F60/F70 cars the payment is made before the project begin, years before the car would be build?

Back to the subject, a 920hp, sub 1500kg will easily play in the league of a Veyron. From the spy shots the car seems very small, and with smart aero it will surpass the 400Km/h mark.

Veyron body design wasn't made with the max speed in mind.

 

The sheer looks, sound and performance differential is enough. That ride in Todt's black Enzo in the 60 years relay event has been a life changing experience. The F40 was the best 25 years ago, things have moved on since then though. Now, even a 458 has the legs over the old legend.

 

I understand the love of people for cars designed 50 years ago. And i think for a person there's only a car type from a certain time that vibrate to his own beliefs, and to his enjoyment about cars.

I love supercars from the 90s, because represents the latest mechanics before the digital superars come. I love the style of the 360, the soul of the 360 CS. I am sure there will be no car like the F50, with the engine "stolen" directly from a F1 car, no car with its mechanics, no car with a rear wing like that!!! No car with that sense of purpose...

I think the F40 will be the ultimate supercar for the performances it delivers 27 years ago.

For me, for my age, these cars just click the boxes in my head and heart. It just a matter of fit between our life and the automotive times we live in.

 

Simple yes or no question: Have you had any personal driving experience of all 3 that you have compared (F40 vs F50 vs Enzo) to base your opinions upon?

 

Of all 3? No. Your point?

 

Your missing his point.

Often...you come across as kinda angry, agitated, and bordering on being a troll.

 

Just curious. No further comment.

 

Past experience shows us that the majority of super ferraris fall in value before starting to rise again. If the new Enzo comes in at $1.5m+ it will almost certainly perform as per the majority case. Seems like anyone who 'wins' the Ferrari qualification lottery will be paying a very handsome price for the privilege. We should thank them.

 

Now, this is an ad hominem accusation sir. I really do not know why you are being judgemental towards me. I am merely expressing my opinions. No need to get this personal and offensive.

 

Ferrari couldn't build cars that competed with Audi, Toyota, Porsche and others in LMP1 and won first overall at Le Mans?

I understand that that is something they no longer do and that the last time they did (Won), which as an aside was a Ferrari modified and raced by a privateer, was in 1965 but I fail to understand how this constitutes not living in the past in terms of Sports Cars. Ferrari Sports car Racing used to be for overall victory at major races not stoplight races against Veyron's and Aventador's or Mag racing with those and others.

 

Veyron's can go a lot faster than they're limited to. The limiting factor are road legal tires rated above the Veyron's VMAX. Keep in mind that those tires by law have to go flat our at that speed for an entire tank of fuel. Road legal tires that can go faster than the Veyron's IMHO aren't likely to be fitted to the new Enzo. These tires require special run flat wheels and the Veyron system is patented by VW and can't be used by others. Run flats have other handling issues and for that reason alone I also doubt they won't be fitted to the New Enzo.

As a final aside there is only one test track in the world where the full tank tire VMAX speed can be made and it's owned by VW. The other track that might be able to do it was recently bought by Porsche.

 

Is there any possibility that car will be roadster like F50?

 

Very good point. And those tyres as fitted to the quite heavy Veyron have a 2500 mile life and cost £6,500 each. The wheels have a 7500 mile life and cost £12,500 each, apparently.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=ehra+lessien&hl=en&ll=52.634001,10.766258&spn=0.096368,0.209255&client=firefox-a&channel=np&hnear=Ehra-Lessien,+Lower+Saxony,+Germany&gl=uk&t=h&z=13

 

I was under the impression the actual tyre fitment design, ie bead to rim, is not unique to the Veyron, simply the particular sizes the Veyron uses. Rolls Royce released the phantom in circa 2003 I think, that uses the Michelin PAX tyre fitment, albeit in totally different sizes, but I thought the fitment was the same in the Veyron, Michelin PAX. Rolls Royce is BMW, right?

I have no ideas on the handling aspect, and how that might be overcome, but if I were Ferrari, and my aim was to build a top end geared super car, I wouldn't let tyres stop me, but in my own mind, I suspect you are right, Ferrari MUST be aiming for the 0-200 time, weight, chassis set up and handling all to deliver a crushing super car, rather than simply a top speed dog

Regards
Mike James

 

It's the size/rating/and wheels that are owned by VW/Bugatti. You can't buy any of those except through them. Some have fit aftermarket less expensive wheels and tires to Bugatti's but they're not speed rated to the Veyron's VMAX. There's also the electronic interface that allows the Veyron to reach VMAX which dials out wing and blocks aero inlet entrances to lower drag. I think you can only reach VMAX in a straight line as if you turn more than 15 degrees the car slows down. Simply VMAX bragging rights which is a lot what these hypercars are becoming. The idea that much of this has real meaning on the street is silly. Personally how a car goes around a race course is much more interesting to me and something I regularly do in many of my cars. Haven't tracked my Duesenberg yet
but I do have 2K track miles on Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina.

 

What makes you say that Ferrari could not compete? Diesel power? Hybrid technology?

If Ferrari did not race in Formula 1 , im 100% sure they could compete, and in time win in the LMP1 class.

But due to Ferrari using racing as their only real method of advertising, they rightly put all there efforts into the motorsport with the biggest exposure in the world.

 

Right up until Ford got back in the game and beat them again.



Too soon?