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the Ferrari market watch thread

Discussion in 'Australia' started by ashsimmonds, Oct 21, 2006.

  1. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
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  3. moretti

    moretti Four Time F1 World Champ
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  4. Gizzi

    Gizzi F1 Rookie
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    Opinions varied from $50 - $100k, depending on who you spoke to. Both men I spoke to knew the car very well.
     
  5. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran
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    The guy who bought it is very happy with the car and it will go to Melbourne for a sensitive referb and engine swap back to the original.
     
  6. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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    Good luck! Who's going to do it?
     
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  8. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran
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  9. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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    we all know, and I'm not as convinced as you are, actually.
     
  10. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran
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    If you know who sold it then you will know how much he got.
    The Collector who bought it is one of many who live in my area, so its not RM.
    He is very happy with the car and value wasn't his total motivator for buying it.
     
  11. ihavearedferrari

    ihavearedferrari F1 Rookie

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  13. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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    glad to hear it.
     
  14. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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  15. ihavearedferrari

    ihavearedferrari F1 Rookie

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  16. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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    Or I love F40s. Dougs a bit repetitive. And I've heard that F40s actually have pretty good air conditioning.
     
  17. 3604u

    3604u F1 Veteran
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  18. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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    That sounds expensive! What's involved in doing that and what are the taxes at the other end? Can you register them?
     
  19. 3604u

    3604u F1 Veteran
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    Yes, we can register them so long at the car is less than 3 years old or either its more than 35 years old.

    Taxes is the killer and a few guys have managed to bring in the RHD converted Stringray and mustang into singapore

    taxes, i have yet to check .. but i guess its gonna be 150% of the purchase price.
    I might be mistaken on the tax structure.
     
  20. Looney

    Looney F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
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    and special windscreens
     
  21. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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    yes....as alluded to in the video, actually.
     
  22. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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    Ouch!

    Autocar report -https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/tester’s-notes/not-so-curious-case-ferrari-488-autocar-road-test-and-cup-tyres

    The not-so-curious case of theFerrari*488, the Autocar road test and the 'cup'*tyres

    Why you won't be reading our performance benchmarks for Ferrari's mid-engined supercar in future
    **
    Matt Saunders Autocar
    by Matt Saunders
    2 August 2017

    The*Ferrari*488 GTB is a very fast car. You know that. We’ve written those words – a lot. But I’m afraid we won’t be writing them quite so often in future.

    I’ve only recently discovered it but, as a result of a decision taken entirely by*Ferrari, our road test benchmark figures on the 488 may be a little bit, well, flattering. So I’m putting them in the naughty corner; not striking the data through entirely, because I think that would be a disproportionate response. I’m just resolving, here and now, never to use them again as a fair basis for comparison – and ‘fair’ is what everyone expects us road testers to always aspire to be.

    Here’s why. When*Ferrari*supplied the 488 GTB for our full road test on the car in 2016, it supplied a left-hand-drive car from the factory in Italy for our benchmark figuring session. Nothing untoward there: it has been our modus operandi for years. We’re only too happy to allow any manufacturer to ensure a test car is fighting fit and in a representative condition before it hands the car over to us, because the way we test is demanding. It’s when those cars are made unrepresentative that we have a problem.

    And, this time, the*Ferrari*in question had*tyres*that, I believe, it shouldn’t have been shod with:Michelin*Pilot Sport Cup 2s. The reason I know this is because it was written down on the day of the test. Below is a screenshot of the spreadsheet on which the information was recorded.

    I wasn’t actually there at the time, otherwise it probably would have been me doing the testing and checking. And because I wasn’t there, our road test of the McLaren 720S earlier this year was my first chance to review the Ferrari’s test data in any detail. I was surprised to see the*Ferrari*test car had been on Cup*tyres*because, well, you would be. They’re usually reserved for Maranello’s ‘special series’ cars: the Scuderias, Speciales and Tour de Frances we’ve come to know and love. Cup*tyres*probably cut a couple of seconds per lap around most tracks from normal performance road*tyres.

    So I rang*Ferrari*and asked for an explanation. I was told that the car we tested was the one that went around all of the big European magazines’ performance tests that summer. “And because we knew you were going to drive it on track," they went on, "we prepared it accordingly. Cup*tyres*were part of that preparation. We’d recommend any customer taking his 488 on a track to use them.” Sounds fair enough, doesn’t it?

    Except, when you dig a bit deeper, not so much. “So the Cup tyre’s an official option for the 488, then?” I asked. Apparently not.*Ferrari*won’t supply a 488 on Cup*tyres*from the factory, I’m told, and would officially discourage people from fitting such*tyres*to a 488 in an attempt to make some sort of do-it-yourself 488 ‘Clubsport’. Hang on, though: didn’t you just say you’d expressly advise that a customer did fit those very*tyres*for track use? Well, yes. But no, not really.

    Inevitably, there’s a grey area. If you really want Cup*tyres*on your 488, you can have 'em – maybe; they are a homologated tyre. And that’s because, for homologation purposes, there’s no difference between a 458 and a 488; and the Cup tyre was homologated as part of the development of the 458 Speciale. Your*Ferrari*factory warranty will survive intact if you do fit some – and certain UKFerrari*franchised dealers will even take the factory*tyres*off your new 488 and put Cup*tyres*on, before delivery, as a ‘special request’.

    I hate grey areas. Because of this one, you can take the view that Cuptyres*belong on a 488 as a result of a legacy situation; a technicality, almost. Or you can take the view, as I do, that they don’t – because it’s quite plain that the car wasn’t developed for them, or with them, and*Ferrari*didn’t intend them for the car. It’s up to you.

    Likewise, I’ll leave it to you to decide how Ferrari’s decision – using a technicality to gain a performance advantage in a test in which it knew lap times, acceleration and braking would be tested – reflects on the company. True, it's not as if*Ferrari*fitted non-road-legal hillclimb*tyres. But, chances are, this didn’t just happen once; this was the car used for every performance test in every major publication across Europe.

    All I know is, when you’re in the business of being fair to every manufacturer and of testing cars in the condition in which most customers will find them, this isn’t news you can just let slide. If the tyre was on the other rim, to butcher a well-worn phrase, and one of Ferrari's key competitors had done the same thing, how much more or less would Maranello expect from us, I wonder?

    The 488 GTB is a superb supercar. We’ve tested it several times since our 2016 road test, on road and on track, and on*tyres*the development engineers did intend for it – so we know that’s the case. And we will continue to recommend it, because one bad decision by a PR department shouldn’t cost an outstanding product the credit it deserves.

    But I, for one, will be watching a bit more closely the next time a new prancing horse rolls out of the back of an Italian transporter. I now truly understand what it means when people say you can’t take the competitive streak out of a company like*Ferrari; one built on a culture of racing – and winning. And I may not be so quick to defend*Ferrari*from allegations of cheating performance tests as I have been in the past.

    The irony is that, even though the McLaren 720S has beaten its benchmarks by some margin since, back in 2016 the 488 would probably have proved itself the quickest car in its class without the help of Cup*tyres. Maranello should simply have had the confidence to let it do that on a level playing field.
     
  23. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 World Champ

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    It's all a big pissing competition isn't?

    Manufacturers and their marketers being obsessed with Nurburgring lap times and 0-100 times. Having gear ratios and dual clutch transmissions calculated to minimise the time taken to achieve whatever performance times look best in print.

    Modern high performance cars are so quick anyway, performance claims are being manipulated to "prove" whom has the quickest for marketing propaganda.

    Of course the headline numbers are a talking point among enthusiasts.
     
  24. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    Jun 15, 2006
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    However I'm not sure that "enthusiasts" talk about the headline numbers much. The buyers that exotic manufacturers target are the Schmee generation - financed by family wealth and clueless, but always having the latest, fastest thing, with every option ticked of course. Yet you never see them driving their cars hard - it's all about making a lot of noise leaving the lights, then back to the speed limit.

    Meanwhile the hamster wheel of new model then special edition then new model goes on, with the market seeming not to care about the dull predictability of it.

    Porker fans scramble to buy a 911R, then the new GT3 is released and guess what, it also comes with a manual and is a tiny bit faster again. Ditto Ferrari, this years speciale is next years 2nd place car. Imagine the excitement if Ferrari did a limited edition manual 488. We live in an age when you can put a gearstick in a car and charge a premium for it!
     
  25. Horse

    Horse Two Time F1 World Champ
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  26. ihavearedferrari

    ihavearedferrari F1 Rookie

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  27. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

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    I've always wanted a red one!
     

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