The first US 308

Can't be (because of the 308GT4's earlier US introduction) -- first 308 B/S = maybe...

 

According to Robert Retzlaff research on his 308 GTB registry, no: 19393 is the first identified as an US 308 GTB. 19395 coule also ne another, but is not identified by its mark et variant.
Rgds

 

Urban lists 19397 as the first US glass car.

 

Urban has 19393 down as a euro car

 

According to a recent thread, the first US 308 GTB was the Road & Track test car, a 1976 308GTB sn 19595. That car was tested by R&T and put on the cover, then it was wrecked by it's owner and converted to a race car, which then was raced by Paul Newman.

Thread discussing this car: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/445185-road-track-gtb.html


From that thread, there's a link to a Forza magazine article: Forza :: The Prancing Clydesdale : Paul Newman and Budweiser race a 308 GTB . The Forza article states:

 

So Jessup, your friend has one of the first cars.

 

Yes, Dr Tommy, You are right. There is even more information that tend to support 19397 being the first US 308 GTB in the "supplement #1" to the "Handbuch..."

19393 is identified as an Euro glass car, red/red, the Montreal auto show car
19399 is identified as being the #2 US glass car.
So, by châssis number, there seems to be a string probability that 19397 was indeed the first US 308 GTB (glass car)
Rgds

 

There are at least 52 US glass 308 GTBs with châssis numbers identified before 19595...
So maybe the first one to arrive on American territory, or the first one registered, or tested?
But certainly 19595 cannot be the first US 308 GTB produced...

Rgds

 

Maybe it's a typo and they meant 19395?

I have 19509, nicely in the middle.
Paul

 

19399 was owned by "308GTB" (Barry ) here on fchat for years. He sold it a few yrs ago, he has a 355 challenge car now.

What is the last glass car number VIN ? Anyone know , and is it still around ?

 

Tricky question...according to Matthias Urban's "supplement #1" to his "Handbuch...etc" the last US glass car is #19803, assembly number #111A, ex Clint Eastwood
The last of the glass line could be #23161

Rgds

 

Good to know thanks.

Didn't know mine was one of those last ones.

 

I know Ferraripilot has a very early steel car...maybe the first of those in the country but I will let him tell that story.



PDG

 

Well,

As far as can be ascertained (never say this is the "Truth" with anything about Ferrari production figures and numbers) the whole "batch" of 100 (or about, because some think that there may have been slightly more than 100, perhaps 105/106 US Glass cars??) was contained in a short bracket of chassis numbers, and cars numbered "almost" one after the other, in a fairly consistent and almost consecutive "serie".
Note that between 19395 and 19803 there are only "about 200" cars because only uneven numbers were used at the time, so it shows that the production of the 100 US glass cars was done in a fairly short period of time (probably a matter of 7-8 weeks?). The actual time difference between the first and the last one would have be short indeed, but as one friend says: "any Ferrari is always the first of this or the last of that, and any Ferrari owner is always proud to explain to you why his car is unique".

Rgds

 

I stand corrected:

I have listed 19393 as a US LHD model, because I had received this information from a fellow serial number spotter. This is obviously not correct. I will change the information on the register website soon.

19397 being the first US fiberglass car was confirmed by the late Gerald Roush, editor of the Ferrari Market Letter. He told me:

----------
As for USA-spec 308 GTB Fiberglass cars there were only 100 built:
In addition there were 154 RHD Fiberglass cars built and 458 LHD non-USA cars built for a total of 712 Fiberglass cars.
20 USA cars S/N 19397 through S/N 19435 inclusive
40 USA cars S/N 19505 through S/N 19583 inclusive
40 USA cars S/N 19727 through S/N 19805 OR
40 USA cars S/N 19725 through S/N 19803 inclusive
(Identities of 19725 & 19805 are questionable).
----------

As for 19395: This is a Euro RHD dry sump vetroresina, now located in Australia.

Sorry for the confusion,

Robert

The Ferrari 308 GTB Register

 

23161 has been described as a fiberglass car in the catalog of the Bonhams auction "Ferrari et les Prestigieuses Italiennes" & Related Automobilia, 19 Dec 2007, Gstaad". I have serious doubts that this can be true. Have a look at the tiny picture from the auction website (copyright certainly with Bonhams), which shows steel version rear lights and bumper. Interestingly the car was withdrawn before the auction started.

The last fiberglass in my database is 22193, which sold for $ 25.308 at the Christie's Auction, Geneva, Switzerland on May 17, 1999. It was shown as a fiberglass version in the auction description, at least. But I also have my doubts about this fact, because there are really a lot of confirmed steel cars before 22193, and it seems the "transition" between fiberglass and steel was long done.

Various sources (The Original Ferrari V8 by Keith Bluemel; Forza No. 1/Spring 1996; Ferrari Market Letter, Vol 23, No 6, March 14, 1998) say that 21289 was the last fiberglass car built. This Euro LHD car is located in Japan today, and the owner confirms that it is a fiberglass car.

BTW, 22409 is also described as fiberglass in my database, but this is a Michelotto Group B car, which certainly was "born" as a steel car (or at least a steel serial number), and received a fiberglass body for weight reasons.

photo of 23161:
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Robert,

A big thank you for the info, but you know of course that Roush's statement about the 154 RHD cars seems probably not correct, as explained in details on this very forum by "Carl888", among others?
It seems that the "154 RHD" cars are for UK only; you very probably have to add to these 154 the 44 RHD glass cars produced for Australia, plus the others RHD cars for the remaining RHD countries, which would probably account for most, if not all, the discrepancies between the "712 cars" as counted by Roush, and the factory figures of 808, or 818?

Rgds

 

This is something I saw a while back
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Bruno,
you are certainly right that the "154 RHD" only include the UK dry sump versions, not the Australian, Japanese (and what else?) wet sump cars. Unfortunately we can only guess, because noone knows for sure, most certainly not even Ferrari.

Regarding "Carl888": if you knew this guy, you wouldn't believe a word he is saying - just ask Aircon

No, just kidding, Carlo is one of the most knowledgeable guys I know when it comes to 308s (and girls), and also a very nice person.

Regards, Robert

 

I still read a lot 712 as VR production. I thought it was now 808.

 

Unfortunately, it is a proven fact that the figures quoted by Paul 0843, which are the one printed in the Bluemell, and which came from figures published by the factory for the 30th anniversary of the 308 GTB, are WRONG; or let's say that they are NOT RIGHT...

Paul, you should have a look at the introduction on Robert's site as quoted above (the 308 GTB register). For instance: it is a proven fact that there are at least five steel cars produced after n° 34349 (the last one of the Bluemell's list), as quoted by the Factory itself in a technical bulletin: 34377, 34379, 34389, 34465, 34503.
Proven "in the flesh" as the owners of two of these five late steel cars are on this forum (Martin and Alberto; and Martin for instance has grown tired of hearing that the car he has in his garage "does not exist" according to published figures - which were wrong, as the technical bulletin from the factory establishes)

But let's not dwelve too deeply in the question of factory production figures, which is a tricky and complicated topic, and stick to the subject of the thread, US Vetroresinas.

So about Vetroresinas and answering Claude's question: to recap what has already been quite debated:
The factory itself has always stated that 808 Vetroresinas were build, and, to my knowledge, has never varied.
But some renowned writers began to adopt the calculation as made by Roush about twenty years ago, which goes: 100 US glass cars + 458 RHD Dry Sump (rest of the world) + 154 RHD cars = 712 glass cars total.
With the Internet, this number was spread around, and will probably continue to be for quite some time, as the new accepted "right" figure: the new truth was 712.
(which is "stuff that the legends are made of" to quote Sam Spade in "the Maltese Falcon", and the Vetro doesn't lack these: weight figures of 1090 kgs or 1150 kgs are still quoted today, even if the right one is now known to be 1240 kgs; power of 255 instead of 230, etc. Once printed and put on the net...)

Unfortunately, it is now quite clear that the "712" figure is not "right", as was discussed in details on this very forum.
The most obvious fact is that the 154 RHD cars were not the total of all RHD cars, but the production for UK only, that is dry sump RHDs.
Australia at least is missing, which is 44 (at least) RHD cars, with wet sump.
So you have 712 + 44 = 756 at least.

And the production of others RHD wet sump for some important markets as Japan, at least, is "not accounted for" yet. It could well be the 52 needed to make the "original number of 808 glass cars" that the factory has always quoted.

Until someone who has all the figures makes these public, we are still "bracketing by guesstimates" but:
712 is almost certainly not right;
808 could well be the right figure.

Rgds

 

Ok so if we assume it is the first US 308 car, what sort of premium would you guys expect it to fetch. Obviously I don't know the condition, whether its original or even restored. If it was still original and in good shape would anyone hazard a guess as to what premium-if any- it would have?