The good news is, mid engine Ferrari's are safe (C8 Vette)

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Fireman1291, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    Thank you for this!
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  3. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
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    Oct 15, 2012
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    Definitely agree. Not everyone in the world can appreciate or afford for that matter a European exotic. This mid engine Corvette will appeal to many car enthusiasts across the country even if Ferrari lovers don’t care. Best value out there for a performance car. Different strokes for different folks.
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  4. Eric R

    Eric R Formula 3
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    Eric R.
    Keep the C5Z. You WILL regret letting it go for anything. Ask me how I know.
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  5. dsevo

    dsevo Formula Junior

    May 7, 2007
    Flower Mound, TX
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    I generally agree with your sentiments, but to clarify, GM says the dry weight is 3,366, not curb weight.

    BLACK HORSE Formula 3
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    Rob L.
    After reading all the treads, everyone is focused on performance and design of the new mid-engine Vette.... but IMO (my 2 cents) American cars just don't measure up to the European exotics when it comes to "quality" of labor and materials used. While ago, the History channel had a TV show "How Its Made" which they showed all types of exotic car manufactures which they also included the Vette. If you saw how the Vetts were assembled you would know why American cars don't last. The American way of doing business is "Time is Money" lets crank them out fast and cheap. I'm more focused on quality, but performance is also a good thing too. Thoughts?
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    BLACK HORSE Formula 3
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    Feb 11, 2004
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    Rob L.
    The Chines and Russians build their aircraft and tanks in high numbers which probably lack the sophistication of advance technology... but we only need just a few stealth aircraft to knock them out so who need a huge fleet? I like our odds better with both the F22's & F35's... they can't touch them!
  9. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2017
    NW Corner, CT
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    Jason Berkeley
    Where do you get that they dont last? Ive never had sticky interior components in my Vettes, or leather that shrinks on the dash and distorts after a few years, or electrics that stop working and The manufacturer doesnt make replacement parts any more, or 'normal' maintenance where the engine has to come out.

    Any you can bring a Vette to any one of thousands of GM dealers to get serviced. Finding a good wrench or local Ferrari dealership nearby for an F car s typically much more difficult.

    You think you will ever see Ferrari offer a warranty anywhere near what Chevy does? I dont think so.

    And by the way, Chevy doesnt build Corvettes to compete with European exotics. Its a different market altogether. Thats why they cost $200,000 less. If Chevy decided to build a $300k car, given the performance, reliability, and lack of 'major' service requirements today, I imagine it would be quite a vehicle.

    Dont get me wrong, I love my Ferrari's and all off their special traits. But ive never had brain damage maintaining a Vette the way I do on a Ferrari.
  10. jjp11

    jjp11 Karting

    Sep 1, 2013
    One could argue that with so few Ferraris, Lambos, etc produced (relative to more mainstream sports cars and cars in general), they should me all the more reliable and better made.. Since the production process is so much more mateliculous, after-all... I've never seen or heard that to be the case though. Other than the interior build quality, which everyone seems to fall back on... You'll have a tough time convincing anyone the cars are produced any better mechanically, electrically, etc than their lower cost competitors. If it's not the annoyingly persistent mechanical issues of years past, it's the electronical gremlins of today.

    Don't get it twisted though.. I love Ferrari and Lamborghini.. That's why I have one of each and is literally a dream come true for me. But, they are high maintenance vehicles and not the most reliable when all is said and done.. Well worth it, at least imo and probably everyone else's opinions on here as well, being we're on Ferrarichat. However, the build quality and reliability on my Viper and GT-R are just as good, and more reliable. No, the interiors are not as nice, but that's about it. Not trying to sway off topic, but the GT-R has been rock solid and the car I feel most comfortable and confident in. Those cars get tuned to crazy amounts and still hold up extremely well. Japanese and American cars can be every bit as good as the European cars, and for a fraction of the price in most cases.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using mobile app
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  11. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
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    Great post, Jason.

    All the best,
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  13. gw32

    gw32 Karting
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    Apr 6, 2017
    Sonoma, CA
    I will probably buy a Z06 as a track car. I traded my Porsche race car for a Scud a few years ago and thought I would track it much more than I have. The Scud's knife edge handling coupled with high value and expensive maintenance make it a poor weapon for the track. A sub-$100K 2020 ZO6 would be the perfect track car. Hopefully the ZO6 will be a lighter as 3500 lbs. is getting heavy for a track car. Perfect time trial car with potential for unmodified top time of the day lap times.
    I was thinking of getting a new Cayman GT4 but with less performance and $110K vs around $90K for a new ZO6, not to mention lower maintenance cost, its a no brainier.Lease it for 2 yrs. and give it back before it starts falling apart.
    Fireman1291 likes this.
  14. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
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    #111 davemqv, Jul 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019

    You Corvette guys are sensitive about your cars! Considering some of the banter that gets lobbed around on this forum I thought "sucks" was pretty PG rated stuff. But I get it. I'm protective of the cars I love, too. And it speaks to the Corvette's credit that it has such passionate defenders.

    I don't want to keep bashing Corvette's in general but this is a discussion forum so I'll make a few points and try to do it in a considerate way. But really it's only my opinion anyway so who cares?!

    Specific to the new C8 -

    The styling, especially the front end when viewed from the side (but really the whole car), reminds me a lot of the 360/430/458/488. They shifted some duct work around, kept their signature tail lights, and added a silly looking (IMO) spoiler - but more or less it's an adaptation of someone else's preexisting designs. That's fine, but it's not really breaking any new ground. As I said earlier this isn't a problem that's entirely specific to Corvette. Compare any mid engine Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, etc from the last few years to the C8 and while of course there are differences they basically all look like versions of the same thing. Now compare a 1968 Daytona, Miura, 911, and Stingray, or a 1986 Testarossa, Countach, Corvette and 959. See what I mean? Unique designs representing the individual character and ideologies of the different companies. I can't argue with someone who likes the C8 because "like" is subjective, but I can argue that we shouldn't really be rewarding the designers for their originality. It's generic "fast car shape" circa 2020.

    The interior really does look awful. I don't know who designed it but it looks like it was made for a little kid who wants to play spaceship. This is an issue I have in general with American cars versus European cars. We Americans do not do "understated" well and especially as it relates to cars we tend to cater to the immature parts of our collective psyche. Everything is "EXTREME!!!" and as a result a lot of our cars look a bit silly. Some like that and others don't. I'm obviously in the "don't" camp.

    The one other point I'm curious about regarding the interior is the quality of the materials. As another person mentioned, GM often tries to maximize profit by doing things on the cheap. So looks aside, I wonder if it feels cheap when you get in. That is the first thing I always noticed when getting into Corvette's in the past. It feels cheap compared to a lot of other cars. When I was 16 in the early 90's I had an '81 Fiat convertible and my Dad's business partner had a brand new Corvette. The leather interior in my little car was way nicer than the interior in his brand new Vette. But maybe they've changed that in recent years?

    I will say that I applaud GM for offering this car at the 60k price point. I think they had to do it that way, because GM's demographic is less well heeled than other "sports car" manufacturers as a rule (ie- Ferrari, Porsche, etc). And I guess that's another sticking point I me the Corvette has always been the car that Americans who can't afford Ferrari's opt for, kind of a consolation prize. I'd rather buy my first choice as a used car later on than my backup new from the dealer. But I know many disagree strongly with that sentiment and it's only my personal feeling. Either way the reasonable price is great for the average consumer and I wish Ferrari would offer a similar option, like a "Dino" for even $150k.
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  15. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
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  16. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    Yes but wouldn't our like our odds better if we had bought more than 189 F22s (something more like the 750 we originally wanted?)
  17. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    Mar 30, 2013
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    Another thing forgotten is how American cars are built to withstand punishment. Also, many components on Ferraris and Lamborghinis are just outsourced from the cheapest supplier. I'm sure the same goes for Chevies but the price points are miles apart.
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  18. syata

    syata Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2017
    As I read this thread I feel the potential of heated and emotional replies. I hope this thread will stay civil.

    I don’t want to comment on the new corvette as others have. But I want to point out that for $60-70k a very powerful vehicle can be purchased that ‘exotic’ vehicle makers would charge $200k more for. And here is my concern, hope I am wrong, this powerful vehicle may be purchased by drivers who may be over their head on what they are sitting in. I don’t know how or what to say on this but a handful of accidents may I say out of control drivers will have a negative outcome for all of the sports car enthusiasts and owners. Not saying the car should be priced higher but I have a concern of drivers over their heads in cars. Similar to motorcycle riders buying too large bike for their own good.

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  19. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    The Cold North
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    I would disagree with the "cant afford a ferrari part of your post."

    There are plenty of Corvette collectors who could afford any ferrari they want by the dozens. They just like corvettes more then they like ferraris. I think one cotvette collector dropped over 2 million on a 68 L88, and another dropped 4 million on a price is not really a factor..
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  20. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    For the price of a carbon fibre package on a Ferrari, you can purchase a very nice looking sports car with a NA V8 495 HP engine that can do a sub 3 second 0-60 and some of you are nit picking the look of the lights in the rear. If this car is capable of decent driving dynamics it represents the automotive bargain of all time. It actually sounds to good to be true. I am anxious to test drive it to determine how much car can be had for this price. I would buy it to drive in the rain and definitely as a track car. And after a few years the depreciation will be less than a nice long weekend at a resort.
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  21. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2017
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    Jason Berkeley
    Not really sensitive about cars- just about people speaking of things of which they actually don't know. Different story.

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  22. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    May 25, 2019
    Memphis, TN
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    I'm guessing that Chevy will sell the heck out of these cars. The death of the Camaro will likely add to the Corvette sales. In couple of years, a used one might be had in the $40k range with warranty remaining. That will be super nice.

    A positive benefit for the Ferrari community might be that the folks that buy a Corvette might want to try a higher end mid-engine car which likely would increase the value of Ferraris, especially newer ones with warranties.

    A negative for the community is that older, sub $100k cars might have potential drivers siphoned off by the lure of a cool looking supercar with daily driver reliability and an extensive dealer network.
  23. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
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    I've encountered many Corvettes in my lifetime and I'm pretty sure I know how I feel, but ok. Like I said, if we all liked the same cars life would be boring.
  24. DanSavage

    DanSavage Rookie

    Dec 13, 2018
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    Dan Savage
    If you look at the entire Corvette line from beginning to present, you'll see a design that is evolutionary, not revolutionary. As such the C8 design is the next generation of the previous one. If you compare the C8 to the C7 you can see the same basic styling cues between these two generations just as there were in previous generations.

    The only revolutionary aspect of the C8 is that GM moved the engine behind the cockpit. The reason for this is the same as why everyone does it -- to put the power to the ground and for better handling.

    The mobile C8 road show(s) will be touring the country over the next few weeks. A dealership local to me will be hosting a preview in a couple of weeks. I'm planning to see the car firsthand so I can decide for myself. You should do the same.

    Here's the schedule so far:

    July 22nd and 23rd: San Diego, Bob Stall Chevrolet
    July 26th and 27th: Kerbeck Corvette, Atlantic City
    July 29th: Fairway Chevrolet, Hazelton, PA
    July 27/28th: Concours d’Elegance of America, Plymouth, MI
    August 1st/2nd: Connell Chevrolet in Costa Mesa, CA
    August 7th: MacMulkin Chevrolet, Nashua, NH
    August 22, Van's Chevrolet, Scottsdale, AZ
    August 22-25: Corvettes At Carlisle, Carlisle, PA
    August 29-31: National Corvette Museum, Bowling Green, KY
    Sept. 4th: Coughlin Chevrolet, Patascala, OH
    Sept. 14th: Rydell Chevrolet, Northridge, CA
    October 14th: Rick Hendrick - Duluth, GA
    Sept 19-22: Corvette Funfest, Effingham, IL
    Oct 26th: Classic Chev, Grapevine, TX
    Nov. 21st; Saxe Chevrolet, Belle Plaine, MN
  25. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
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    #122 davemqv, Jul 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
    There are certainly many people who can afford Ferrari's who also love Corvette's and own them. You guys are proof of that. There are also collectible, high dollar examples of Corvettes. But by and large the Corvette was designed as a performance car that's accessible to the common man. Even the rep in that Jay Leno video described it as such. I don't see any point in saying that isn't so when Corvette themselves say it's an integral part of the car's purpose. But there's also nothing wrong with a car being affordable. I love old 912's and they're still pretty cheap. I don't think a $200k '67 911S is a "better" car. Just more valued.
  26. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
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    Well when the engine moved from the front of the 365 GTB/4 to the rear of the cabin on the 365 BB, that was seen as a pretty big switch! I'd say we should apply the same logic to the Corvette. I agree with you though, that up to now Corvette's have steadily evolved from one point.

    Again, it's not just Corvette. I'm equally irritated by the rather uninspired designs coming out of Ferrari at the moment. I still argue that if you put pics of the latest mid engine Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, and now C8 next to each other you see more or less the same car, just finessed in different directions.

    It may be that with current design capabilities and technology, that's just the only shape any car maker can currently utilize in order to get comparable performance. So maybe Corvette had no choice but to mimic what was already out there.
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  27. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    This is a home run for Chevy. Amazing price for what you get compared to stuff like a Nissan GTR are pushing $120k and this is half the price.

    With the number they sell, the aftermarket products available will be huge as always. It will make a great option for tracking given the engine layout. I really am looking forward to how the Z06 variant will be.

    I think the C7 z06 is a better looking car, but I just prefer the look of front engine cars with wedge shapes. Similar to how I prefer the front engine V12 Fcars to the mid engine V8s.
  28. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

    Jul 19, 2006
    FL and NC
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    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    Out for a drive today with 11 friends in 11 cars...mostly Ferrari’s. The countryside needs another week to!
    One guy driving his Z06 the other in his NSX.
    The Z06 owner also has a Ferrari...and a really nice Jet he flies himself (Citation).
    The “Acura” guy got his car complimentary with his Honda Jet, which he also flies regularly.
    The two pilots joking about how they fly around looking for “cheap” aviation fuel. :D
    Both could use a fashion make could I. :)
    Never judge a book....

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