The great cockpit debate; 'discussion' this Friday....

I'm not convinced that this is going to have more benefit than potential downside and I'm really not convinced that this is the lowest hanging fruit when it comes to improving driver safety.

Depends on the angle of the road, driver and car.

Anything that reduces a driver's vision at F1 is adding danger IMO.

 

Redbull's jet fighter canopy imho would look ok...

And this is what Horner had to say about the Halo:

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I could live with that. And I appreciate Horner being conservative.

Also interesting comments in regards to the uselessness of the halo

 

Isn't often I like to hear Horner talking but agree with him there.

 

Thanks for the clever edit to my original post but what I actually wrote (and it was taken from Kimi's own feedback) was:

I had also stated that this was just a prototype mock-up and not the final version (It wasn't even a structural part as the final version is supposed to be).

As for it causing a problem with "the angle of the road, driver and car", about the only place I can think of where that might be an issue is through Eau Rouge and Raidillon at Spa (which admittedly is the last place on Earth that I'd want to have any possible vision issues whilst driving a race car).

Into turn 1 at COTA might possibly be another, but it's nowhere near as steep as the climb through Eau Rouge/Raidillon.

Drivers don't tend to spend much time looking up at the sky when they're out on circuit - They tend to concentrate more on what's straight ahead of them.

 

Looks just like old F1 cars

 

That was My first thought too! - Very Ferrari 256/156 ish!

 

I disagree. You can see into a F16 canopy - I am sure the F1 boffins will figure out a way for us to see the drivers and also for the drivers to see out.

The driver extraction piece can be engineered as well - explosive bolts trigger the ejection of the canopy when it sees the car going turtle.

IMHO, the canopy is a better looking solution and probably safer than the T wing in front of the driver.
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Redbull's updated canopy design rendered:
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When you thought F1 couldn't get worse.

F1's cockpit halo on course for 2017 introduction says FIA - F1 - Autosport

 

The only way F1 can get worse now (after the halo) is for Indycar's cartoonish rear bodywork to be mandated for GP cars.

 

So how is an F16 style canopy going to cope with an F1 wheel/tyre dropping on it from a height?, or an F1 car climbing up the nose of another car and smashing it it?

How structural can the canopy be made in order to resist crash impacts?, and how do you avoid having sharp shards of canopy material hitting the driver in a crash?

Currently drivers need to tear-offs on their visors due to the amount of oil, brake dust, track debris etc., etc., that gets thrown up during a race, so how's an F16 style cockpit going to be kept clean during a race - Extra pitstops to pull off massive canopy tear-offs?

As for ejector canopies: I'm not sure the FIA would want large plastic canopies being fired off cars if they go upside down whilst in mid air (as happened to Webber) TBH!

 

https://youtu.be/e87HIlOIYFA?t=1m10s

PS. It's a 5 year old test

 

Not going to spoil here, but there was a significant crash today. Canopy/halo would have prevented the driver from getting out. IF there was fire, what's their solution? Can't very well let the driver burn to death.

Hmm.

 

Good point about the halo trapping the driver.

My point is: The horrific crash today just proved that a halo is not needed.

My bigger concern is that now all the calls for covered wheels or protected wheels (like the ugly crap from Indycars) might surface.

 

People hit in head today: zero.

Cars on fire: one.

I'll take the easy exit thanks.

 

Didn't see much height on that test! - How often have you ever seen a loose F1 tyre hit a car at that angle during a race?

How about some footage of a rear F1 wheel & tyre being dropped on the canopy from a great height? (You know, replicating the way a loose F1 tyre could possibly bounce up into the air and drop back down again).

I bet Alonso's glad there wasn't a canopy on his car today! ( And if there had of been, with all of this talk of ejector canopies, at what point would it have ejected?, and where would it have ended up?)

 

I'm not sure a halo would have trapped Alonso. If anything you can grab the thing to pull yourself out.

 

Halo will go the same was as this year's new quali format. Straight into the bin. Alonso's crash shows that halo will adversely affect more crash scenarios than it will help... Pointless waste of time and money.

 

+1
Pete

 

I don't think the issue will go away.

The halo has never been heralded as the solution to all types of crash, but one to address the danger of flying objects hitting the driver's head.

 

Very short-sighted views from you here.

The halo wasn't needed in that case, it may be a life saver in other incidents. A halo would have saved numerous drivers in open cockpits in various single-seater series.

Also, enclosed wheels add to safety. I doubt if Alonso's accident would have been so dramatic with enclosed wheels. Indy adopted them for safety reason: it was a courageous move.

 

What's the point of closed wheels in an "open wheel" format? What's next - drivers racing tricycles?

Having raced open wheel cars, it's well known the dangers of wheel to wheel contact, that's the point!

You want closed wheels? Go race NASCAR. Halo or closed wheel gets adopted (a la IndyCar, which is a cluster **** **** show), and they lose me as a fan. The stupid ugly cars has me close, thank God for the return to slicks and the Mercedes, which looks like a proper F1 car.

 

That's the point: the "open wheel" format will have to go at some point; it's archaic.

The authorities try to minimise the risks; that's their job. That's what participants and the public alike expect them to do. Protected cockpits and enclosed wheels are the next steps.

There is a huge difference between a single-seater with enclosed wheels, and a 2-ton saloon car, don't you think?

As for "looking like a proper F1 car", what are they supposed to look like?
There has been a massive evolution from the Maserati 250F, or since the Ferrari Sharknose to the Lotus 49 and today's Mercedes. For a start, today's cars are full of aerodynamic appendages, wings, massive tyres, and you can hardly see the driver anyway.

F1 is submited to a constant evolution, and trying to stop it at some point to satisfy the aesthetic tastes of the purists is just not going to happen.

 

That is a very short sighted statement that could naively be applied to pretty much any endeavour in life which has any element of risk.

Why don't you suggest we ban guns in America because they are archaic and dangerous and see how far that gets?

Halo is a solution to problem for sure. But as has been demonstrated in Australia, it is likely to create it's own problems which will adversely affect a bunch of crash scenarios. On balance, does it have a net positive improvement on safety or not? At best it's marginal, and quite possibly negative.