The Harley of Ferraris

Thanks to Yamaha who bought Harley (or something) and went about the huge task of redesigning everything so that the oil stayed inside, etc. I remember reading not long ago about the improvements made to the new Twin Cam engine and one of the improvements, which they made a huge deal about, was that for the first time they are pumping oil through the filter first instead of through the engine. Der, everybody else has been doing that since day one!

Also a friend of a friend was a Harley mechanic and he stated that they are the worst designed piece of **** he has ever seen. He could not believe the design of the crankshaft and it's support, and was amazed that it ran at all!

What I do find most amazing is that they do NOT leverage of the rest of the world who have been making far BETTER twins for many, many years, producing lots more power and reliably. Rotex for example powers Aprilias and they are a 60 degree twin and produce huge power. Honda also have made 60 and 90 degree twins that DO embarrass Harleys, etc. Ducati also make twins ... but not sure about reliability here, although they make good torque and much more power from half the sized engine.

I actually like some of the styling and yes they are doing what Morgan did and sticking with the same basic style ... but they have their place.

Could not agree more, absolutely the worst sounding engine ever, especially when idling (er, trying to stall).

Again this shows the lack of engineering training by the original engine designer as a 45 degree twin is just simply NOT balanced, and at the very least needs a balance shaft. The Rotex engine (the 60 degree one) also is not inherently balanced and thus has 2 balance shafts I believe.

Yep they sell very well, as they are the cruiser

Ditto!

Pete

 

Nice to know I'm not alone on here.I love the aprilia's styling but I'm not crazy about the sound of any V-twin I've heard.I prefer the sound of a inline 4 screaming myself.

 

Before anybody buys a Harley of a Buell (now owned by Harley and use Harley engines/gearboxes, etc.) have a look at this site:

http://www.mybuell.com/

While I realise you could probably find a site like this for any non-Japanese bike, I have never seen one listing quite these many amazing problems ... even Ducati ones

Pete

 

I've had my 1992 Harley Fatboy since it was new and I have not had one single problem...and it doesn't leak any oil either. I have riden it to rallies from Ashville to Daytona in relative comfort for a motorcycle. The build quailty is excellant and on par with my M5 which is much better than any Ferrari I have owned or seen. The only money I have spent on it is for extra chrome, tires, brakes, oil changes and other routine maintenance. Nothing has ever broken nor has it ever left me stranded...I can't say that about the 6 Ferraris I have owned. A lot of people do still think of a Harley as the choice of low-life tatoo bearing body pierced bikers, but...that was based on old movies and folk lore... recent polls show that the average Harley owner is a mid-40s white collar professional with an income of $200k+ per year. About the same as the average Ferrari owner, although the low cost of the 308/328/348/355 high production models have brought that demographic down a bit. The Harley has a mystic that no other bike has. Again, like with a Ferrari, if you have to ask why one would own a Harley...you wouldn't understand.

 

How many miles do you have on your bike Frank? I've had my bike for 3 seasons now but only a little over 4000 miles. I'm hoping to get a little more use out of it this year.We had so much rain on the weekends last year.

 

Frank, I have been riding motorcycles since I was 14, which was a long time ago. Because, in Florida, you could get a permit at 14, me and my buddies would get a paper route and a Honda 90. Then one buddy got a Honda 160. Man, was that a big motorcycle.

Indeed, the first motorcycle I owed was a Harley. Well, it was an Aermacchi, but it had a Harley badge.

But back in the day, you had two choices: (1) a Triumph Bonneville, or (2) a Harley Sporter. The Electra Guide was an old man bike that no kid would be caught dead riding. Personally, I went the Bonnie route. Sportsers could haul ass in a straight line, but they couldn't stop, they couldn't handle a curve, and, believe it or not, the build quality was worst than the Brits. Imagine that.

Over the last few years, I have been greatly amused at the sight of my neighbors, who are doctors, laywers, and Indian chiefs, playing bad ass biker by riding in packs of 20 or so from ice house to ice house. Kinda scary actually, because most of these folks don't have a clue as to how to ride a motorcycle, much less a 800 pound one. What's even scarier is to see these old farts hanging around real bikers at the ice house. I don't have the time (nor am I sure that anyone is interested) to get into this here; but, I have some tales to tell from my days working for the Feds. Bottom line is that you don't want to be anywhere near these "real bikers."

But back to the point, I have always said that it was embarrasing that H-D would never take some of the huge profits that it was raking in and fix the Sportser. This bike was a POS in 1970, but everything was a POS back then (except Honda). But 30 years later there is no excuse for this bike to still be the same POS.

HW, now that H-D has finally done it and built a decent bike. I might just have to try one. I don't think it can beat the 1970 Bonneville that I have mothballed in the garage, but I might be fun to ride a modern Harley.

Keep the rubber side down my friend, DrTax

 

If selling overweight, underpowered ill handling motorcycles is best, then so be it.

Its really hard to make an engine sound so anemic and obnoxious at the same time; no wonder the japs have so much trouble, they have to unlearn how to make engines that A) produce power, B) run smoothly, C) reatin all their oil, and D) dont shake themselves apart.

Ancient joke: Why are harleys so easy to modify?
Answer: they shake off the parts to be on the way to the machanic!

In any event, an air cooled Ducati will run rings around any harley and makes lots better noise.

I and another sport bike rider tried to have a genteel conversation with a couple of harley riders several years ago. We wanted to talk about light weight, girppy tires, and lean angles; they wanted to talk about chorme and maintenance. There was no way to break through that barier.

{{Sort of like trying to break through to EllenLambo that bashing Ferraris is not what this site is for}}

 

Harley quality used to be (not sure now) in the mid 80's just awful...And as for them being like ferrari's, well they have the heritage, I guess, but would you want to go to a ferrari chat meeting with Hell's Angels?

 

I find that while the Japanese bikes maybe imitation, I think that BMW makes a superior touring bike. Just my 2 Cents, I think that the R1100 roadster was and is drop dead gorgeous.

 

atheyg, I too once raced motocross and was sponsored by Suzuki back in the early 70s. So not only did I race, ...I often won. That was back when my TM250 was the fastest thing around. Then Honda came out with the Elsinor, Yamaha with the Yz and motocross bikes improved dramically in a very short time. Then in 1974 I was off to the Navy and my motocross career was over. After that I owned a Kawasaki 750 triple, a 900Z1, a Suzuki GS750 and GS1100 along with assorted other dirt bikes such as a Suzuki TS185 which I rode hard and put away wet. But, if you equate performance with being a "poser", then most all Ferraris are posers too. A new Honda Accord will trounce a 308 or 328 in acceleration and handling and most of the modern jap sports cars will destroy the newer 348s and 355s. Not to mention what the M3, M5 and AMG cars can do to them while they seat 4-5 in comfort. Take on a new WRX STi at the track....good luck. Most of the Harley owners I know are very good riders who once raced dirt bikes of some type or were once in the sports bike scene. Then age came along and going fast on a bike and doing wheelies became less important that the ride itself along with the wife to the mountains, beach, bed & breakfast or where ever. I know that here in North Georgia I see a lot more jap bike riders in accidents than I do Harley riders. And, as a PI attorney I have represented a lot more injured jap bike riders than Harley riders. I've never seen a BMW rider down though.

 

Wow,

I can't help but comment on some of the crap I'm reading here. First and foremost, I'm a motorcyclist. I've been riding for about 7 years now (since I was 20) and have put a little over 160K miles on bikes in that time. I'm mostly a Honda guy, but I've ridden almost everything the market has to offer by attending things like the Honda Hoot and various AMA races where test rides are common.

Make no mistake about it, Harley's are utter crap. They serve no other purpose than to prove, beyond any doubt, that there are way too many stupid American's out there with a lot of money who care way too much about a perceived image than they do any sort of function or practicality.

Every die hard Harley guy or gal I've ever met who puts any sort of serious mileage on their bike(s) will tell you, plain as day, that they constantly require tinkering/fixing and there isn't a single one of those riders who would consider a trip of over 2K miles without bringing along a host of tools and spare parts.

I put 42K miles on my '97 VFR the first year and a half I had it. It suffered a NJ -> NY commute every day, rain .. shine .. and yes snow, without a single hiccup save for a dead regulator at the 21K mile mark ... and I beat the everlasting piss out of that bike. The only reason I stopped riding it was because I traded up to a CBR929 which I then rode everyday for years and it didn't have a single failure of any kind, not one.

And see, there are a lot of vehicles out on the road today that are less than "very reliable" ... but dammit, the Harley is just so boring, so slow, so pitiful in every aspect of it's performance, I can't fathom how any individual smart enough to earn enough cash to buy one ... actually would!!

I, and many other's, consider Harley's to be the most unsafe motorcycles on the road today. The OE tires are crap, bottom of the barrel crap, on all models save for the V-Rod. The brakes are the worst in the industry. Single piston (sometimes dual, which is still pitiful) calipers both front and rear. They've never had a frame that can support any kind of sporting backroading without feeling like jello ... V-Rod included (Porsche only helped design the engine, pathetic Harley employees, internally referred to as "engineers" designed the chassis). And their redesigned twin-cam 88 engine makes a whopping 50 horsepower from 1400+ cc's ... what's the word I'm looking for here ... pathetic?

I'm sorry about my "stupid owners" comments earlier. Some of you who've mentioned owning Harley's in this thread surprise me. To be honest, I'd kinda thought people of this caliber were beyond that. Have you ever ridden any other motorcycle at all?? Hell, even the damn Victory cruisers put shame to Harley in terms of performance, quality, reliability, and cost.

I'm currently on a BMW K1200LT because my wife is comfortable on it, it has all the amenities she was looking for (heated seats and FM/CD) and it impresses me with it's handling (for its size), power, and good looks. I'll admit that reliability hasn't been anything like that of my Hondas, but at least this thing handles like a motorcycle should, puts out 100HP, and maintains 85% of peak torque from 1500RPM on up. Not to mention 4-piston, hydraulic-assisted calipers front and rear with linked brakes and ABS. Throw in the normal sized wheels which allow me to run the latest/greatest sport and sport-touring rubber and this thing stops on a dime.

I'm seriously interested in knowing what you who own Harley's and think they're acceptable vehicles do per year in terms of mileage and what other motorcycles have you ridden for more than 50 miles? Also, what are your tastes ... what do you look for in a bike?

Bill in Brooklyn

 

Sorry to interrupt, I can seem to pass an opportunity for a joke.

David gets married. His new wife has always desperately wanted to have children. But David has zilch for sperm count. When it becomes apparent that no offspring will be coming from David's loins, his wife picks a neighbor and, sure enough, 9 months later gives birth to a girl.

So they decide to name the infant......





You'll love this....






Hardly David's son.


JMJ.

No, I'm not thinking of quitting my day job.

 

Back to my thought earlier that has been echoed by quite a few people here and argued buy others

Walk into a Harley dealer and look at the amount of "CRAP" that is logo'd, Harley is a brand that happens to make some old style bikes....

"What's interesting is Harley makes a vastly inferior product to say the japanese.The average person doesn't know a Harley from a honda or anything else from my experience.Kinda like someone saying nice mustang to a ferrari owner.But if a harley is what you want I say buy it we only live once.Might as well enjoy it."

I have a Honda Shadow ACE 750 More people think it is a harley than I can count...

HD is the best at one thing MARKETING They have created a "Great American" brand with Korean made parts, German Designed engine, Japaneese designed suspention and other things I could keep going on with......
I agree with Bill on the BMW --- Bullit proof
My next bike is going to be a R1200C
BMW soaks up mileage that would distroy a Harley

 

BillNg, I suppose a person that buys a Harley is the same type of person that buys older Ferraris or other classics even though there are a lot of better performing options out there for less money. Its the experience not the speed. But, when I was a mere 27 years old speed meant everything to me on a bike too. You can see my earlier posts to see what kind of bikes I have owned and experience I have gained in over 32 years of riding. And I would not now consider owning any bike other than a Harley.

 

Im with you on that one.

 

Frank, my apologies. I didn't realize that you were a long-time biker and not a poser.

Question: What made you switch to riding hogs? Personally, I mothballed my bikes after the last time some nitwit in a Suburban, talking on the cell, cut out right in front of me.

Plus, I realized that the thangs that I used to do, I shouldn't do no mo.

In fact, what attracted me to the Maranello is that it is a 4-wheeled motorcycle.

So, I'm wondering. Does riding the big hog make you slow down enough to where you enjoy the ride and not the thrill? Or maybe riding such a heavy bike makes you aware of your limitations and, thus, slows you down? Or do you just enjoy the H-D camaraderie?

Thx, DrTax

 

Whoah there cowboy. Please go back and read what I wrote. Then, when you're done, edit your post and take the word "too" out of "... when I was a mere 27 years old speed meant everything to me on a bike too." because if that's how you felt about speed at that age, you're the only one in this conversation that feels that way. I'm on a 2003 BMW K1200LT-Custom. This thing weighs 850 pounds, has heated seats, reverse, cruise control, heated grips, a 6-CD changer in the right-side trunk, a single in-dash CD, AM/FM stero, and an electronically adjustable windshield ... not to mention ABS. I'm on this because my wife wasn't comfortable on my 929 for trips longer than 200 miles which isn't acceptable when you take a triplet of 2K-mile weekends and a few week-long-joy rides each year ... thus the long hauler (I don't like the new GoldWing for many many reasons ... and don't even get me started on the Road King or whatever Hardley's equivalent is).

Speed does not mean everything to me, in fact, it means much less than you think. Safety means A TON to me, and the fact of the matter is, no matter how cramped your knees might get, sportbikes are the safest motorcycles on the road. Statistics say I'm wrong, but statistics get blurred by hoardes of young 20-something kids or know-it-alls who get in way over their head. Today's sportbikes come with and accept the top-of-the-line rubber on the market, have the best brakes by FAAAAAAAR, are extremely light which makes them less succeptible to being pushed around by wind (if you need explanation on this ask me and I'll explain it best I can, has to do with percentages of weight and centripital [not centrifugal] force), change direction faster than any other bikes on the market (I like the idea of AVOIDING accidents, not worring about how well I'll fare once I'm in them), and accelerate harder than anything on the planet (my totally stock CBR929 could run a 10.2 quarter with the right rider at the controls) which makes for avoiding rear-ending drunks and red-light running cabbies that much easier.

I have no idea why you ended up riding Harley's. Did the other bikes just not bring in enough poontang? If you reply to this post at all, answer me just one question ... how many miles do you do each year on average? My dad's been riding for almost 30 years and my mother for about 25, but neither of them have anywhere near half the number of miles under their belt as I do, and in the circle of people I ride with, I'm practically a rookie from a mileage standpoint. 27 years means nothing if you only do 5K miles a year.

Bill in Brooklyn