The In Crowd and the Out Crowd

THANK YOU !!!

 

Jerry: Read post 47 and then tell me I'm wrong -- and give us your specific ideas of how to solve these problems without upsetting it's existing loyal customers.

 

If you feel Ferrari and it appears it's owners are Elitist why do you have 21,000 posts on Ferrari Chat and not Kia or Honda Chat?

 

Etip simply has attitude with the way the way the world revolves. If you substituted new ferraris for hummels, or franklin mint products, or guitars or something, nobody would take issue with you getting a shot at a limited edition for being a loyal customer. It's the price tag that's making him see this in a negative light, which means it's an attitude problem, not a ferrari problem. Sorry Etip, just calling it as I see it. Things work fine just the way they are.

 

I think Jerry's taking issue with people taking issue with the term elitist. It is what it is.

 

You cant see beyond your confirmation bias.

 

This has little to do with Ferrari and more to do with your usual PCness. I love you man, but you are very very thin skinned and very very PC when it comes to certain things. I , on the other hand say exactly what I think with no regard to how it may offend anyone.

More on topic, you just dont want to accept the definition of the word 'elitism'. We are ALL elitists here , in one way or another.

Your posts in P&R are elitist. My posts are elitist. EVERYONES posts are elitist. Im sorry you take offense by that but I didnt define nor create the word.

Anyway...not looking for a fight and think Ive adequately explained my postion.

 

Really? I asked a simple question. I think you can come up with a simple answer. If I'm wrong -- tell me. You don't need to be insulting.

If you can't explain a better solution to what the person calls "elitist" business practices, then you must admit its just the best way to do business and keep loyal customers coming back in what we all have to admit -- is a very small market of potential buyers.

If you complain that a business operates in an "elitist" manner, then you need to explain how it should avoid it.

So, we'd like to hear your solution for waiting lists, avoiding speculation by requiring a car to not be resold more than MSRP, and the proper way to offer special edition cars.

 

Frankly, SpA doesn't NEED to market their cars any longer. They can sell their annual inventory multiple times over. They sell themselves at this point, and, for the most part, the marketing dollars moved from the Ferrari brand several years ago to Maserati. It's your choice to call that elitist or practical. Today's soft economic environment may have some bearing on things, but SpA can easily shift delivery to places like China and the Middle East. There is no law written that SpA must always sell X% of their production here.

As far as I'm concerned, SpA has treated their customers with disdain for decades. Il Commendatore was famous for it. However, what was once "charming" and "anachronistic" is now insulting. Probably, in large part due to the fact that it's not Il Commendatore who's at the wheel any longer. And, there was a time when the street cars were available solely because the Scuderia needed money to go and race. Times change, but none of us can help but feel after repeated fleecings and indignations that SpA only feels we're good for our deep pockets.

CW

 

OMG. I give up.

I asked you to tell us how Ferrari should avoid these elitist practices and you come back with PC?

Come on... either give us your answers or just leave us alone.

 

I dont want Ferrari to be less elitist. Its impossible for a company selling $300k cars to be anything but elitist.

Thats what you dont get.

Your even broaching this shows you have a confirmation bias towards the word. You only hear it in a negative context , but its not only negative. It can be simply descriptive.

 

+1

 

The post of mine you quoted wasnt directed at you ...

Just sayin...

P.S. I never complained about Ferrari being elitist.

 

Interesting take. And, I can see your point. No, I did not see it as "simply descriptive". I saw it as condescending.

Yes, I do view the word "elitist" negatively. But, that's the context in which it entered this thread. That is not my fault.

But, if I take your view, then I agree with you.

 

It's unfortunate that partaking in something elitist invites negative responses. We should be able to be happy for, or at least not concern ourselves with, those that have more. When people cop a negative attitude, it's an insult, completely ignores the fact that somewhere along the way they earned it and you didn't, period. I'm thrilled for people who have cool things. I'm taking my family back to Atlantis again, and we'll be staying with a view again of the megayachts. They're definitely elitist, way beyond what we're talking about here now, and God bless them why shouldn't they be? Somebody earned it.

 

::hugs buddy:::

 

we have a winner. this post nails it exactly.

We have had the same competition Ferrari in our family for 52 years, and I can tell you that we have never been "invited" to anything by the company. The only thing we have ever gotten from an FNA dealer was a t-shirt. People like us are not a blip on the radar screen of SpA (unless we were to submit our car for Classiche classification (see "fleecing" on the quoted post) which we will never do).

Most Ferrari owners and enthusiasts are too young to remember that the very reason that the FCA was founded in the first place was shoddy treatment by Old Man Chinetti Sr./FNA; the few owners in the US got together in 1962 in a valiant attempt to assert some kind of unified voice/buying power to the Factory. It got the attention of Enzo, who even allowed the fledgling club to use the prancing horse on its logo. It is beyond ironic that the permission granted by that 1963 letter (I think I have the year right) was rescinded in the recent Ferrari SpA/FCA "secret" agreement - the factory is now essentially in control of the club logo and God knows what else.

I think this thread's focus on "elitism" misses the point. This is about control. Ferrari SpA is all about controlling its brand and the phenomenal income stream that represents. I believe it has been at least several years now that the Factory has made more money from licensing it logo than from selling cars. The image and the control of that image is of paramount importance. In the last ten years, the Factory's various lawyers have been working overtime, dissuading those would attempt to make a penny in any way related to the Factory's brand/intellectual property.

So who gets invited to a party has close to nothing to do w/ car sales or fan enthusiasm; they could easily sell triple, quadruple their yearly production w/ zero advertising or sucking up to potential buyers.

My two cents.

 

this thread can be summarized in a song:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrxI_euTX4A&ob=av3e[/ame]

 

The context at which etip brought elitist into this conversation is the only way we should be discussing this. It's got nothing to do with the way I interpret elitist. Yes it can be defined as non negative but 99% of the time it is all about being negative when it discusses the more affluent and that is my point.

It's extremely wrong to catagorize me or my friends or anyone with expensive cars as an elitist until OUR ACTIONS prove otherwise. That's what I was reacting to. Whether you defined it differently or not.

Ferrari has been fortunate enough over the years to not worry about market share. They owned it for years and still for the most part do. I am not in the group that believes Ferrari can continue to sell all their products over and over. That era has gone. Ferrari cut production down and changed their marketing to an extreme this year. This is very apparent with the number of first time new car owners buying the 458. Ferrari knew their constant stream had dried. Previous owners wanting the newest biggest baddest car went away so Ferrari changed and quick. The 458 not being successful like Ferrari wanted is definitely a sign of poor economic times and previous customers not drinking from the kool aid

Yes I agreed with Bdelp and his questions of you. I'm not conforming with bias. I was reacting to the feeling given by several posts that Ferrari and the owners felt they were better than others.

 

are you going so far as to say we can't even look down on Dino owners anymore!?

frick....i'm buyin' a Roller.

 

I'd like to see Ferrari assume control of their entire North American Dealer Network and sell directly. We don't need a middle man in this market, especially when they are usually behind the power curve in terms of information and product knowledge. There would be little incentive for Ferrari to play "I've got a secret" with lists, rumors, special privileges for special customers. We do not need dealers to bore us with the reasons we should be buying Ferraris and at the same time, skimming off the top a profit margin that could go straight to Maranello to assist the Scuderia in an effort to stop Red Bull.

 

Here is the original post where the word 'elitist' was used

"Ferrari is an elitist, expensive brand. They DON'T care about the average consumer. They don't have to. "

Im sorry. I see nothing negative about this. I see no attack. I see nothing but a factual statement.

Ferrari IS an elitist brand. Thats a fact. Its inarguable.

 

Generating pages of chatter on fchat and other places is pretty good for not showing up at an event. I'd say Ferrari got their money's worth with that move!

On another note, I think this pedantic mess over elite/elitest belongs up in the politics area...

To me, Ferrari is an elite marque for elitists and non-elitists everywhere.

 

Ferrari NA does get the final say on all cars purchased. As for middle man. Why noy? They are businessmen just like most of us. I am fine with dealers and them making profited. That's why I am in business. To make a living.

The post below sums it up for me.

The original post called Ferrari elitist not ELITE

 

Ferrari is certainly elitist, but not negatively. They have earned their right to "govern" in the automotive arena through decades of winning and sacrificing. How people perceive owners is another matter all together and nothing to do with Ferrari as a company.