The influence of dominant race cars and the imbalance they create | Page 2 | FerrariChat

The influence of dominant race cars and the imbalance they create

Discussion in 'F1' started by daytona355, Nov 26, 2018.

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  1. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Sid Korshak
    I stand by my opinions, so think whatever you like. Toto was his manager when he signed for Mercedes, that’s the last time he considered his options. Wonder why he isn’t his manager now - sacked for getting his clients into a crap deal maybe?

    And since when did you or any other Elton fan worry about getting facts right. Hehehehe. You guys are so funny, that’s what makes you such great conversationalists hahahahahahaha
     
  2. ATBNM3

    ATBNM3 Formula 3

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    Put Hamilton in this years Ferrari and you get the same result a Hamilton WDC's.
     
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  3. Lotaz

    Lotaz Formula 3

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    Not so sure about that
     
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  4. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Nope, you’d get an angry Elton upset at the ineptitude of ferrari race management, and unable to cope with being tormented by tifosi
     
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  5. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Ok, so maybe we can get back to dominant cars and the damage they do if the dominance lasts

    As I suggested, dominance for a few races, or a season, is not too bad provided the other teams have the opportunity to develop and try to catch up, but five seasons with barely a race every five where someone else has a chance.... that’s ridiculous.

    Should the FIA go back to the drawing board, and if so, what should they do, other than allow testing, allow developments, and remove the limits on engines, gearboxes and other components?

    Would f1 benefit from two or more tyre suppliers?

    What about multiple spec tyres, and no limits on how many to use?

    What about a return of the Sunday morning warmup sessions, give the fans a bit more to watch?
     
  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,266
    Well, it is clear that the 3 engine formula is not less costly than the completely unlimited engine formula many years ago.
    It is also clear that the transmission rules are harming the free practice portions of the F1 circus.

    F1 would benefit from multiple tire suppliers, and each team should be allowed to use whatever tires they want from any supplier at any track.
    But what would give the fans a goo go is to allow a driver to start on harder tires than he qualified, and attempt to go the whole race without a pit stop.

    As for Friday, the track should open at 8:00 to 11:30 and from 1:00 to 5:00 and allow any kind of running the teams desire.
    On Saturday, track opens at 8:00 to 11:30 as free practice. Then at 1:00 perform qualifying.
     
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  7. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Interesting...... real practice sessions! I think they’d be difficult though, as the support races couldn’t run, but they definitely need more track time. Maybe there needs to be a Thursday ‘testing practice’, whereby they can run all afternoon at the track on the Thursday in ‘testing’ mode. No engine and component limitations, and if the cars are still subject to those, then the regs apply to their Friday thru Sunday engines and gearboxes, Thursday can be whatever the teams want to run. That would encourage development, and maybe it would see teams being able to catch up a little with the then series leader, and the cost of testing would be of limited hardship as they are simply at the track a day early.
     
  8. ATBNM3

    ATBNM3 Formula 3

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    Ferrari management would not have made the mistakes they made with vettel because they can trust Hamilton to drive a perfect race and not make mistakes. As well being the quickest driver and having the best race craft.
     
  9. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Is that what happened at Monaco when he demanded his tyre changes?, and plenty of other races where he completely ignored his team and lost places or risked losing races? Elton is no different to many other drivers in f1 at the moment, he needs constant validation and information from his team in order to function, if things are going wrong, he is found wanting on a lot of occasions (one of the races a while ago where the two cars had brake issues, Rosberg made it to the end albeit losing places, Elton destroyed his and retired).

    Elton is as dependent as anyone else on race management, so Ferrari’s lack of skill recently in that regard means that he would likely do worse than Vettel, as Vettel is known for being able to manage things well (when he is in the right frame of mind of course, and this year, the service from the team has been so poor he has actually overcommitted to managing the race from the cockpit and made mistakes as a result)
     
  10. Nortonious

    Nortonious Formula 3

    Sep 20, 2018
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    I agree. Vettel made some mistakes for certain, some perhaps due to simply trying too hard because he felt he needed to overcome the insufficient team support. Regardless, I see a lot of potential upside for next season.

    Regarding the team dominance discussion: can someone provide which year(s) had the greatest parity among constructors in terms of points, podiums, or any stats deemed relevant?
     
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  11. ATBNM3

    ATBNM3 Formula 3

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    What are your talking about? Every commentator has said Hamilton's season was just about flawless. Winning 11 races and taking taking 11 poles showing dominance over this season even though for much of ir he was in the 2nd or even 3rd fastest car on the grid.

    He maximized his points every race whether he won or not. He fought cerebrally and always calculated his risk vs reward when it came to everything tires, passing, or even being passed.

    He's the most cerebral driver since Senna or Schumacher.

    Ferrari could trust him just like Mercedes did to not make stupid mistakes.

    This quote from Brawn says it all
    "Lewis Hamilton dominated the season, although this was probably the most difficult of his five title wins, and certainly the most complicated of those he has taken with Mercedes.

    For the first time in the hybrid era the Silver Arrows were up against an opponent, in the shape of Ferrari, that was usually stronger, especially in the first half of the season. However, over the course of the year, Hamilton hardly put a foot wrong, winning not only the races he should have, but also some where the opposition was stronger, and that is the true mark of a champion."
    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.ross-brawn-reflects-on-'intense'-2018-season.ngbLtCMaaGwyQKw4mKSWC.html
     
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  12. cairns

    cairns Formula Junior

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    The Hamilton hate consumes him....I think he's renting space in his head.
     
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  13. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

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    To the OP;
    Why not change the title of the thread to Lewis Hamilton bashing 1001 , it is obviously all you want to discuss as everything you post leads back to Lewis one way or another .
     
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  14. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
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    Someone open a "The influence of dominant drivers and the imbalance they create" thread. Hamilton deserves it
     
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  15. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    Add that cars are much more safe and more reliable. Many times, cars didn't even finish the race if they had the outright speed advantage. Even in the '90's, dnf's were still fairly common, even among the top teams. Now, you rarely see a top car not finish a race due to breakdown.

    Better design and better tech certainly makes it easier for a top car to claim a greater % of wins than during past eras.
     
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  16. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Others keep making it about Elton, not me. I’ve tried several times to bring the thread back to what I want to discuss, unfortunately some Elton fans think every thread has to be either pro him, or it’s some kind of attack on him. That’s their issue, not mine


    Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission
     
  17. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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    Personal attack. 7 day ban.
     
  18. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula 3

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    Also the 3 engine rule means that the teams don't push engine performance to the limit since a failure would impact on multiple races.
     
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  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You'd think the FIA would up the component rule from 3 to 6(or 10) now, and fuel flow rates, so these teams can open their cars and actually race going into 2019 or 2020. The manufacturers already have proven reliability and performance to a certain degree.
     
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  20. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula 3

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    I think it was a misguided attempt at cost saving - all things being equal, 3 engines are cheaper than 6 so the cost of engines over the season should be less. But, of course, not all things are equal.

    Personally I think every race should be a stand-alone event in itself, a 'Grand Prize', rather than this obsession with the WC titles and carrying over grid penalties from one race to the next.
     
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  21. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Don't get me started on grid penalties with regards to the components in relation to the drivers.
     
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  22. Hobacks427

    Hobacks427 Karting

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    Limiting development in the top form of motorsports always struck me as counterintuitive: while I recognize Ferrari at least evened the balance somewhat this year, how much of the Benz success is due to the formula change to turbo-hybrid "power units" coupled with significant restriction on development (tokens) and component limits? The limits placed on development strike me as also having set up races where tire management, fuel management, and especially engine wear management are more important than outright race pace. I accept that management of the physical appurtenances needed for the car to function has and always will be part of the sport, but today I think overly so to the detriment of on-track competitive racing.
     
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  23. Michael Sexton

    Oct 30, 2018
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    Michael Sexton
    The only way to fix competition is aero. It has ruined IndyCar, NASCSR, F1 etc. Give them all the horsepower they want, give them less aero and narrower tires and let the drivers skills do the talking.
    All more testing would do is let aero get even more out of hand and let the the well funded teams widen the gap to the filler teams even more.
    If you want to see which driver actually is the better pilot, check their performance on a wet track.
    Suddenly you're racing with less downforce, less traction and too much horsepower and now it's all about reflexes, concentration , and balls.
    Or I could be wrong...
     
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  24. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Require the big 3 to sell identical customer cars to privateer teams in order to race. Not just be an engine supplier. You will never get 10 competitive teams if each makes their own chassis, but you can have 3 so just multiply it out. It's semi-spec series I suppose, but it would be nice to see 4-6 actual Ferraris out there for more drivers to get a chance. No different than in GT3 racing where 488 GT3s are run by multiple teams as are the Bentley GT3s, etc.

    The WCC would go to the factory team that made the car and not whatever privateer team just because they may have won the most races. WDC goes to the driver. That would solve any issues with the factory team feeling they would lose out if the privateer somehow does better with their equipment.
     
  25. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Now that would have been interesting: having 6 Red Bull running in front from 2010-2013 and then 6 Mercedes lapping the field in 2014-2016...
    Having a customer Mercedes would certainly not mean that they would beat a works Mercedes but propably the RB or Ferrari would not even reach the podium -> the racing would be even more uninterresting that it already is.
     
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