This new thread is a spin-off of this discussion: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/reconstruction-bubble-late-80s.589302/ Starting here: Also look at the Jaguar XK220. Orders were taken at the height of the bubble, and deliveries began after the pop. Jaguar in some cases actually sued customers to take delivery. Matt
The XJ220 is an interesting case. I think customers bailed in part because Jag promised a V12 but changed to a V6 Turbo.
That is actually a myth, the spec was very clearly v6 when Jaguar started taking £50k deposits, but the speculators did not care, as they thought they would make a fortune flipping the cars, but before final delivery the market crashed and a number tried to claim this as the reason not to go through with the purchase, none of them won.
Perpetuating a myth does not make it fact. I followed the events closely at the time and went on Jaguars stand at the 1988 Bimingham motorshow and looked around the original 4x4 V12 prototype. The final production spec was very clear to all depositors, none of them got their £50k deposit back as a result.
Logically, if evidence of other big lawsuits with other manufacturers around this time is found, then it would indicate that the Jag situation was perhaps speculators trying to get out when the bubble was popping. If not, and it’s just isolated to the Jag, then it would indicate some degree of truth with the Jag lawsuits and not a mere fabrication by reportedly 75 (!) claimants. I have no dog in this fight—just an observer of automotive history via credible sources.
As I said, I am not reading about this in articles written 20 odd years after the event as you are, I was following the events as they unfolded back then, the major newspapers were reporting it at the time, between 1988 when the one off car was shown and 1992 when the balance was due we had a major worldwide recession. In the late 80s you could buy a new Ferrari in you were on the waiting list and double your money the next day flipping it, so the speculators expected to do the same with the XJ220 but as it took a long time to become available those days ceased. The wide boys who had borrowed the £50k in the early 90s expecting to sell the cars on straight away could not then come up with the balance and tried every excuse under the sun to get out of the watertight contracts with Jaguar. The spec they placed their £50k against was a 2wd v6. Its also why Mclaren failed to build the over 100 examples of the F1, they simply could not find the buyers. By the way it was not the depositors demanding their money back, the lawsuits were initiated by Jaguar demanding the balance be paid, as many of the depositors were happy to write off the £50k and walk away from the contract, as it was far less than they would lose by taking delivery of the car and reselling for a major loss
Your version of events is actually more interesting in large part because it is virtually unknown, counterintuitive, and against the status quo; however, authoritative, credible evidence is needed to establish veracity. So far, R&T and C&D —two well-known and well-regarded industry magazines with editorial boards and standards—say the opposite, as does Leno (arguably the most all-around, first-hand knowledgeable car guy on the planet), plus his buddy Philip who is an actual XJ220 owner and enthusiast. As also widely reported, reducing the cylinder count from 12 to 6 wasn’t the only promise not fulfilled—the AWD system wasn’t implemented, and purportedly, Jag promised a 0-60 time well into the 3 second range and a 220 mph top speed — neither of which were ultimately attainable. The car just didn’t meet expectations. A long sales cycle led by certain commission-hungry Jag salesmen likely didn’t help either... Links to the mentioned major newspaper stories and/or archival docs of the lawsuits would be great. Maybe the OP can find them as part of the research. It would be interesting to verify this so that everyone can join in and enjoy helping to dispell this widely held ‘myth’ with confidence.
Its not my version of events, its the fact of the matter! as I have stated many times I lived through it all in real time, not 20 odd years later on the internet and I have even produced a document that names the judge in the case and the outcome! repeated misreporting and sloppy research does not turn fiction into fact. Classic case of Chinese whispers. You can lead a horse to water............
Paul is right. The show car was a 12 cylinder AWD prototype. But anyone who signed an actual contract knew that they were getting a V6 rear wheel drive car. Speculators pointed to the show car as the problem, and not their own greed. I was there at the time, too. Matt
I am open and willing to believe the story because I find it so interesting, but again, need concrete evidence compelling enough to override the overwhelming body of evidence counter to it, a small portion of which I’ve already provided. Otherwise, it’s a time-wasting, dog chasing his own tail exercise. ‘I was alive and paying attention at the time’ alone would not pass journalistic standards, academic peer research standards, and/or court-of-law standards. Put succinctly, to bust a widely held, persistent myth, considerable burden of proof is on the myth buster. Again, would love to believe this interesting version of events! No alliegance here to either story. Cheers.
Believe whatever you want. You aren’t going to find many contemporary links; the stories ran before the internet did. I brought the XJ220 up in post #4 here as an example of data before and after the bubble. Matt
Yes, I agree. I think we should discuss the (Ferrari) car market and not focus on specific cars. The 220 story is very interesting, but better in a different thread.
I think you give Jay Leno a little too much credit. And I think he’d agree. For what it’s worth, I bought the third Ariel Atom made in America. Leno bought the second. I have no idea who bought the first. I did a lot of business with the late Larry Rhodes of Extrude Hone before he sold his business to Kennametal. He was one of the first to import a KJ220 into the USA, still right hand drive. Matt
I am not a major car guy but this version is what I remember as well from back in the day. First time I read the "newer" version was at a car display here in Vegas and I remember thinking "That's not the way it happened." Anyway I was in my 30's around the time and had a thing for Jags, still do............But I have no proof what so ever, just a shaky memory.
Guys this is 30 year old news.... Lets start a poll.....just to see . v12 or v6 which was it? On the V12 SIDE LENO PHILLIP GTJOEY Gary Bartlett I'm just curious to see how long before the ANGER starts on a 30 year old story
Don't much care anymore about WHY the car flopped. I sure DO recall the NASCAR-like "smash 'em up derby" racing series they had. Now THAT was bizarre!
