the "Lancia" 308 QV | FerrariChat

the "Lancia" 308 QV

Discussion in '308/328' started by Albert-LP, Apr 20, 2016.

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  1. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Alberto Mantovani
    #1 Albert-LP, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    An old friend asked me to help him to put on the road again his Lancia Thema 8.32. Maybe someone here doesn't know this model of the eighties, that had the 308 QV three liters engine. It's an heavyly modified 308 engine, with different crankshaft (90 degree and no more 180 degree like the 308 one) and many other mods (that I don't know exactly them all) but it's always a great engine with 215 cv. It was the biggest power front wheel drive car at its time.

    The prancing horses and the Ferrari emblems were not original, of course: it was a Lancia and the only Ferrari writing is on the airbox cover in the engine bay

    ciao
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  2. 19055

    19055 Formula Junior

    Jul 19, 2014
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    #2 19055, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
    Oh yes Alberto.. I had the first type without cat, and (in my opinion) with the better looks of the first series. Same color, but with the fabulous black leather interior of Poltrona Frau. Never-ever "sat" better behind a steering wheel. Really smooth and powerful engine, sounds marvellous. I used the car during my first Alfa Romeo racing year for pulling the trailer and the Giulia Super on it. As if you were just transporting a sack of potatoes in the trunk, so easy it pulled in the hills of Spa Franchorchamps.

    Everything about this car is great: style, looks, sounds, comfort, performance. Well, exept for the FWD.. I owned the car for some 12 years, sold it a coupe of years ago due to lack of time, accumulating technical issues and getting a 156 GTA. I still regret it, though..
     
  3. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    8,254
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    Phill J
    The Lancia Thema 8.32 was an interesting project from the FIAT group.

    The thinking was to make their own "Q"-car in the same manner as BMW's M5 (Back then, the BMW M5 in E28/E34 guise barely looked any different from any other 5 series but went like a rocket ship, these days M5's are far more obvious due to owners no longer wanting to have their cars mistaken for "lesser" models), and make a more mundane Lancia a bit more exotic.

    The engine was loosely based on the 308 QV engine, except that it it didn't have the flat plane crank, it had smaller valves, the firing order was changed from the 308's and it produced less power.

    The 8.32 had a couple of problems though:

    1) The V8 lump up front made the car a tad nose heavy due the fact that it sat ahead of the front suspension. This resulted in the chassis suffering from a lot more understeer than any of its rivals, and being front wheel drive, there wasn't much you could do about it. This wasn't a problem for straight line performance, but on a twisty road it was not what was required in that market sector.

    2) The cars performance failed to match that of BMW's M5, in fact, performance-wise, it's closest BMW rival was the more "mundane" M535i, and even against BMW's everyday 5 series, the 8.32 still lost out in the handling stakes.

    3) The Lancia Thema 8.32 had a much closer rival than the BMW. It was a car that was cheaper than the 8.32, a car whose performance was a match for the 8.32, and a car whose handling was much better that the 8.32 - And that car was the Lancia Thema 2.0 16v Turbo!

    The 2.0L Turbo straight four weighed a lot less that the Ferrari based V8, and so the car understeered less, making the car much easier to coax through the bends at high speed. On the same stretch of seriously twisty road, the 8.32 would struggle to keep up with a 2.0L turbo version, and it's driver would have to work much harder.

    It may sound as though I'm bashing the Lancia Thema 8.32, finding reasons to put it down just for the fun of it. The fact of the matter is though, the 8.32 was never as good as the theory suggested it would be!

    The chassis balance was too upset by the heavy engine up front, the performance didn't match (let alone beat), the best that Germany could offer, the service builds were much higher than they were for the the 2.0L turbo version, and not many people wanted to pay the asking price, just to have a Ferrari-based engined car that didn't look any different to every other Lancia Thema and was going to lose tens of thousands in depreciation.

    The Lancia Thema 8.32 was in reality, a bit of a crazy idea from the FIAT group, who should really have realised during the prototype/testing stage that it just wasn't going to work!

    In true, crazy Italian fashion though, they were not put off and cracked on regardless! And that's why you have to love the 8.32! - Somebody said: "Why don't we try putting a Ferrari V8 into a Thema body?", and somebody else said: "Why not? - Let's do it!".

    And let's face facts here: More often than not, it's the crazy things in life that make you smile the most! :)
     
  4. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
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    All true. Add also the fact that the Thema wasn't the most inspiring looking car Lancia ever produced either didn't help...
     
  5. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    +1

    Not a seller on our shores either. I don't recall if it was even allowed Into Canada , but I have seen a few. It was easily mistaken for a hyandai "stellar" back then.
     
  6. 19055

    19055 Formula Junior

    Jul 19, 2014
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    Emile
    Okay, true, handling and steering precision wasn't great. But the trip from Holland to France and back was more energising (that is, for me !) than the holiday in between.

    As far as "character" is concerned: the other previous mentioned cars were never-ever a match for that superb, charismatic, all-Italian saloon with one of the finest sounding engines mankind has produced until now !
     
  7. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,794
    The Thema Turbo could also be tuned to produce the same or even more hp output than the 8.32 with ease.

    The looks, sound and interior were a lot nicer in the 8.32 though. And it had a RETRACTABLE WING, man!!
     
  8. 19055

    19055 Formula Junior

    Jul 19, 2014
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    Emile
    Yeah. But nót when having to replace the "driver-side" exhaust manifold. Ask me how I know.. :)
     
  9. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    All true, but it remains that the engine sound is great and that is the only Ferrari engine ever installed on a Sedan

    Ciao
     
  10. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2004
    2,603
    there a have been a couple ferrari sedans based on the 456GT along with the shooting break version not sold to mere mortals. :)

    also this wonderful concept in 80's 1980 Ferrari Pinin Four-Door Sedan Concept up for Grabs
     
  11. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #11 Albert-LP, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
    yes, but they aren't production cars, the Pinin even hadn't an engine installed until some years ago: This one was a production car and doesn't cost even too much, now!

    I think they produced something like 3000 cars of 8.32 model

    ciao

    Edit: total production 3520 units (2370 units of the first series, 1150 units of the second series)
    The color of the car I posted is "rosso winner".
     
  12. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I believe at least one F-Chatter (in Canada, if memory serves) owns one, or did. I'm pretty sure he still has it, and he posted about it here previously.
     
  13. detroiter

    detroiter Karting

    Apr 30, 2013
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    What kind of things does the car need? From the photos it looks well kept.
     
  14. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    you see the car just serviced and cleaned (yesterday). It's a fantastic condition single owner car, but unstarted since eleven years: it just needed a major service (belts, waterpump, fuel pump, brakes, tyres and so on) and a big cleaning

    ciao

    Edit: the car is not for sale, I just shared it as it was very exciting to see the car resurrection after eleven years.
     
  15. HielToh

    HielToh Karting

    Oct 6, 2015
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    Beau LeBlanc
    It's a pretty good looking sedan, nonetheless. Nice work, Albert.

    Beau LeBlanc
     
  16. 19055

    19055 Formula Junior

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    Just in the 60K or 80K (can't see it clearly) kilometers ?! That's not very much, and the car looks like it did even much less. I really love it !!

    I knew of two cars with well over 250.000 kilometers that I could not outrun with (at the time) my fresh 30K kilometer engine. In the appr. 12 years I had my 8.32 the only technical trouble I ever had was a dead battery. Letting the engine thoroughly warm up and regular maintanance payed off. Either they are pretty well built or I was very lucky ?!
     
  17. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Apart from the F136 in the Maserati QP.

     
  18. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #19 Albert-LP, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  19. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    I always thought they were a cool car. Not the best looking and not the best performing from what I've read. But still very cool. And hearing the acceleration sound is GREAT. Love it.
     
  20. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    The car is much better if you are on the driver's seat: The sensation of luxury, the driving position, the steering wheel and the fantastic engine sound that becomes extremely exciting over 4000 RPM and the big power make you feel great. I saw many of those cars in my life but this one is the first that I drove: It's fantastic and I felt immediately in love with the car. I even asked to buy this mint one, but unfortunately is not for sale. Prices now are from 7 to 15 k euro and a mint one just serviced like the car pictured can be 20 k euro. This car major service cost was more or less 8 k euro with a new exhaust too

    Ciao
     
  21. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
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    Fully agree. I had a 2.0 turbo 16 that was a blast. Wanted to upgrade to an 8.32 until I drove it.. Sounded great but that was all and it was a whale in a corner and couldn't get the power down in a straight line.

    By the way, it wasn't a 308 but a 328 engine, hence the 8.32
     
  22. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior

    May 28, 2012
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    #23 Arvid, Apr 21, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
    Peter, I have to correct You on that one. The 8.32 was indeed a 308 QV based engine with 2927ccm displacement. The "32" designation refers to the number of valves.

    I have owned one of these for 13 years now and can concur that it's a fantastic car in many ways but not a racer by any standard. It is a pure glider for well suited gentlemen with an impressively exclusive leather and burlwood interior. The attention to detail on this interior has to be inspected to fully understand. The sound,feel and exclusivity is what defines this car.
     
  23. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    100% correct: the displacement is 2927 cc. The 8.32 name means "eight cilynders with 32 valves"

    +1: you perfectly focused and described what that car is. The Alcantara interior is fantastic too, not only the leather one.

    ciao
     
  24. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2004
    2,603
    valves are smaller than the qv? how much smaller?
     

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