Funny you should say that. Last I heard, the anti Ham fanboys were proclaiming Bottas the superior being. He seems not to have been taken out in turn 1, or perhaps you forgot that? As for this thread being silly, yes it is. Nothing wrong with that and bit of good humoured ribbing.
Canada was one of those times when Hamilton really impressed me. His qualification was excellent and he ran a pretty masterful race. He owns this circuit and it looked like it. The British flag waving was a bit weird but I get the tribute to Senna so its OK.
He doesn't need my blessing but he should be happy when anyone appreciates what he does. Sometimes it feels a bit like he doesn't...
At the race in Canada, the crowd was really split up into two main factions: 45% Ferrari fans 45% Lewis Hamilton Fans that I'm not sure even knew who Bottas was... 10% Red Bull fans mixed in normally younger crowd 20-30 yo Most of the merc fans were younger with many, many women in that group. I didn't see many women wearing red. It would be interesting to follow the demographics. Younger kids 10 and under were normally wearing red and with much older parents or grandparents also wearing red. Really old fans were wearing lotus gear and Williams... I saw a few middle aged Haas fans - that was about it... But yes, whether you like it or not. Many, many, many Hamilton fans at the Canada race. Robb
An observation: Ferrari was on pole two times this season, in Russia and in Monaco. Obviously on both tracks the Ferrari was better balanced than the Mercedes. In BOTH cases Bottas was much faster in qualy than Lewis...makes me think that Lewis´ weakness might be to get a good set-up in case the car does not suit perfectly the track. If the car is good he shines but if not he does not look so great. Question: is Lewis a fast driver with a deficit in working on a set-up when there is actually work to be done and it does not come naturally? This was questioned in the past as well but is this season actually a proof for that?
dont remember it because I didnt say it. I dont pay attention to nonsense this race was over the moment Verstappen damaged Vettel's FW (and even if he had the pace (he didnt) Merc wasnt going to let Bottas compete anyway, giving him Softs instead of SS)
DING! Winner. Bottas had no chance on softs. This was LH payback for Russia Softs? Really? What a pathetic strategy. Split strategy? No....just plain useless for Bottas. Softs were useless hence his pace. Mercedes need to explain that.....
Don't be daft DF, no one wants to spend thirty pages of thread discussing Mercedes team orders when they can bang on at ferrari blowing up Kimis brakes, or making him pit, to favour vettel........ the elton fans won't have us demonstrating that Mercedes make elton faster, and that he isn't really an better than anyone else
Purely from being in the dominant car. He hasn't been markedly better than any teammate other than heiki, and he had luck to win in 2008, and the car was the star for the two Mercedes titles, during which, he had to have the support of Mercedes behind him to unfairly hold back Nico, who was there till the very last race each time, and was nobbled throughout each season by unfair team tactics
Absolutely. Anyone that really knows the racing "game" also knows that a major part of being one of the best is putting one's self in the right place at the right time and building the team around themselves. All the "very best" have done so. Do you disagree that it was the same for (most recent) Senna, Schumacher, Alonso or Vettel? Again, his numbers prove that he has been very successful as a driver in the "game" of F1. Disliking his personality isn't proof enough that he's not great at his craft....
No, because those drivers were also capable of winning in a rubbish car, and most weekends showed amazing prowess and skill behind the wheel. Driving the fastest car on the track to finish in its natural position is not particularly hard to do. Stick him in the ferrari of last year, or the year before, and he wouldn't just have failed to win, he'd have retired in frustration The mark of a champion is your whole persona and demeanour - he has championships, but in life, he's a chump
Interesting as I think this stat says the least about him...It says more about the cars he was sitting in because you should remember that apart from Kovalainen 2009 every single year his team mate won in the same car as well!
All number one drivers have the team around them to some degree. Yes, the really special ones do it to a more significant level. They inspire the team to come together around them. It would be interesting to know how the mechanics and engineers at MB really feel about Lewis on a personal level. Normally, honest praise is heard naturally and free flowing. Contempt on the other hand is whispered and quiet. As far as being in the right place at the right time, I consider that down to luck most of the time. It's easy to go to a top team when they are winning like Bottas did this year. That does not automatically make you a great driver. Nor does joining Mercedes like Lewis did, before they became all powerful. That was luck. Lewis did not have a crystal ball, nor was it his skills that lifted the team to all the success that followed. In fact, it was the opposite. The work that was previously done matured and Lewis was the benefactor.
Yes. And being the "benefactor" means you've been clever enough and talented enough to put yourself in that position. This is what makes one driver a champion while the others are scratching their heads. I call it the "Fangio Principle".
If that were the case with elton, then the donut would have been at red bull in 2009, and not outstayed his welcome at mclaren the way he did. The majority of the team couldn't wait for him to leave as I heard it, from the real people there. Ron Dennis was literally his only fan come the end, the rest were fed up with him blaming them when it went wrong, and taking the praise when it went right, much like he does now at Mercedes
I did not know about the team mate wins ... but as far as I know, no other driver has achieved this stat. Maybe a point of interest, more than an ability judgement. Pete
I never questioned that... But this particular stat is often taken as it would mean he could win in any car that was given to him...but he never sat in "any" car but always in a car capable of winning a race as proven by his team mates. For me this stat only shows that he never had to deal with a really bad car like Senna or Schumacher had to in a time of their career. I would like to see (but it will not happen anymore at this part of his career) him in an inferior car for just one season to see how he deals with it. Vettel for example did not deal that great with it in his last RB year and this is often a critic of the Hamilton fans against him when being compared. But truth is that none of them knows how Lewis would deal with it...
