The majestic beauty of engines... | FerrariChat

The majestic beauty of engines...

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by NYC Fred, Dec 1, 2013.

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  1. NYC Fred

    NYC Fred F1 World Champ
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    #1 NYC Fred, Dec 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Looks like a P&W Wasp Major.
     
  3. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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  4. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Yep, R-4360 AKA the Wasp Major.
     
  5. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Turbines are Ruining Aviation

    We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're ruining aviation and our hearing...

    A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat.

    Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.

    Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a horny mistress. On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it...

    Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a little louder.

    Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a GUY thing... When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan: Useful, but, hardly exciting.

    When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too!

    Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind!

    Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.

    Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
     
  6. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
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    I was hoping to see some seductive odd-number-of-cylinder radials...
     
  7. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    About 60 years ago, someone might have said "Diesels are Ruining Railroading" with the same refrain. I always said that when a diesel locomotive starts from rest, it just, well, starts. When a steam locomotive starts from rest, it's high drama!

    And about 30 years ago, in places like Detroit and Seattle, some said that "Turbines are Ruining Hydroplane Racing".....
     
  8. GaryC430

    GaryC430 Karting

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    Jim, there is one thing exotic about starting my turbine....I know if I screw up the sequence I just blew enough to buy a Bugatti Veyron. That'll keep your attention :)
     
  9. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Radials are all odd numbers... at least each row is. 3, 5, 7, 9 cylinders (AFAIK)...

    The featured R-4360 above has 4 rows of 7 cylinders so the total is even (28).

    The 4360 is the displacement. 3-4k HP

    The B-36 used 6 of them turning pusher props.

    I think that's seductive, myself.

    Jim Curry's post above is perfect...
     
  10. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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  11. Bob Parks

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    You're right on, Jim. Those who do not feel the temperament of a radial are doomed to suffer their wrath when not gently stoked. One winter day in Texas an airplane next to me erupted in a bright orange glow at 0430 when the kid screwed up the staring procedure by over priming and then letting the engine barf and back fire. The ensuing fire ignited the pool of gasoline below the engine , the puddle of oil, the wheel well, the tire, and warmed things up pretty quick. The fire watch could do nothing and we had to scramble to get airplanes out the area near the blaze. Quick way to wake up in the morning.
     
  12. FERRARI-TECH

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    #12 FERRARI-TECH, Dec 2, 2013
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    Sounds like waking the wife up in the morning.....

    This was always a good one...more likely to die starting the engine than from enemy fire....complication for complications sake....
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  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #13 snj5, Dec 2, 2013
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    How could I not?

    The 1916 Gnome 9B-2 Monosoupape rotary: 12.8 liters with a 4.85 compression ratio using 40 octane gasoline making 110hp at a whopping 1250 rpm spinning a 102 inch propeller - can you say torque? Swings the biggest wood on the airport, just like its pilots. :)

    What a sound (and the aroma of burnt castor oil) !
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  14. alexm

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    #14 alexm, Dec 2, 2013
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    When I was at Duxford IWM they had a nice range of engines on display.

    I had just watched a 1970's movie (Dirty Harry in "Magnum Force" pretending to be a pilot to get the hijaakers) and the 4 engine Boeing(?) looked like it had tiny jets compared to the diameter of current ones!
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  15. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
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    That's what I'm talking about!

    :)

    Matt
     
  16. davebdave

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    #16 davebdave, Dec 2, 2013
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  17. davebdave

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    #17 davebdave, Dec 2, 2013
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  18. ArtS

    ArtS F1 World Champ
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    I believe the first engine in this thread, the 4360, was known as the corncob.


    Regards,

    Art S.

    PS. If you want an engine that will wake you up, look up PDE - sounds like a machine gun going off next to your ear when heard through a two foot thick reenforced concrete wall.

    PPS. I'd love to know the fuel flow rate through the F-1
     
  19. Bob Parks

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    Helping to run the rotaries at Abottsford was a real eye opener: the soft swing of the prop, the power when the engine kicked in, and the huge column of air and thrust when it got up to speed. You could hear the rush of air around the airplane as it started the take off . Big prop, big torque, big fun.
     
  20. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

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    And some Mormons?
     
  21. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I have some really cool pics of engines in various states of disassembly from one of the major airlines in which we have done some work. I'd love to post them up, but I cannot. I was given permission to take whatever pics I wanted when I was at one of their maintenance facilities, but I don't think I should disclose them for a few reasons. Suffice it to say, I was geeking out big time.


    Mark
     
  22. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    If I remember correctly, it was was over 5,000 lb / second.

    Total burn was only about 2 1/2 minutes. Burned NOx and Kerosene, I think.
     
  23. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    It was either a Boeing 707 or a Douglas DC-8, don't remember which (maybe a Convair 770/880).

    Those were turbojets. They didn't have a fan on the front, just a straight jet engine, so the diameter is small compared to modern fans.

    Terrible fuel economy until they got to cruising altitude.
     
  24. Bob Parks

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    #24 Bob Parks, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
    I don't remember the exact intake dia. but it was around 42 inches. Touring guests always got a chuckle out of seeing that the intake plugs in the factory were kids plastic wading pools. An employee got a handsome reward for his suggestion that saved the company thousands of dollars. The torque produced by the early gas turbines wasn't appreciated at first but then came the JT3D with the first fan. The 720B with the fans and the leading edge glove was an absolute hotrod and had to be carefully monitored as fuel burned off or it would knock on the door of Mach 1. The gas producers of the modern fan engine aren't any larger in dia. than the JT3 or JT4.
     
  25. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Bob,

    Don't the remaining B-52s (H model?) still have the JT3D? (military calls it something else)...

    It originally had 8 turbojets some 60 years ago.
     

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