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The manual lives again

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by boxerman, Apr 10, 2020.

  1. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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  2. F140FG

    F140FG Karting

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    First thing, I drive manual cars and I'm not going to buy a DCT in the near future. However take in consideration that for emission rules it is becoming almost impossible to homologate a manual car
     
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  3. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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  4. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Yet porche, BMW Chevorlet and others manage to do it just fine. I dont buy the emisions argument,
    For sure for any number of cars a manual is an extra compliance expense and not justifiable. For a sports car or sporty car a manual can oftentimes be premium niche product, part of the overall cars "experience", plus supports the brands sporting intent and leads to incremental sales.
    Manuals are not for everyone, but they're also clearly a very viable market niche especialy in the performance realm..

    Ferrari dosent do it because untill now they have had all the customers they want so why bother.
     
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  5. F140FG

    F140FG Karting

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    Yes, but keep in mind that they are producing low numbers of those manual cars.
     
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  6. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    True, but its a buisness in the sprots/sporty evocative car segment,
    Ferrari doesent produce that many cars to start with. If its viable in low GT3 GT4 numbers, M2 M3 numbers, challenger camaro numbers its viable for sportscars.
    If mini is offering it then its a market.
     
  7. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    ya... but those cars are based on other cars with significantly more cost sharing plus are at a miniumum 50% more money. That affords you to put a manual in.

    Also the market of these cars have changed.

    This arena is not all that competitive anymore and they are thriving off of historical/heritage sales. People want them.

    The other segments are very very competitive and the .4 tenths of a second makes a big difference in a magazine. For the statistics racers... its everything. In the placement of 1st 2nd 3rd in a magazine comparo... the manual just loses. Loses non stop.
     
  8. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    GT3 comes both ways, so they get the fast 0-60 for the paddle shift version and still offfer a stick.
    The GT3 is also a car specific powerplant, limited volume , and even the 6 speed is specific to the Gt3 not shared with other porche..
    Even tiny Aston offers the vantage both ways.
    So form a buisnsess case perspective it can be done for cars produced in the 2000 unit range..
    Ferrari are just arrogant and lazy. Thye're also limiting themslevs in the market again and handing market share to others.
    Mclaren exists because ferrari pissed so many customers off.
     
  9. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    I am totally with you in spirit and wish they would build it too.

    But I have a different understanding and perspective being in the car biz etc...

    Ferraris the cars are not about going backwards. They are always about going forwards. Going back to a manual would be a step backwards.

    They want to trade on their f1 tech regardless of how embellished that is.

    But Ferrari ultimately is sticking to a plan or mission statement that's why they haven't done the dino.

    And it should be commended that they have a direction and they stay the course.

    Unlike McLaren that has changed direction so much and rarely take care of their client. Those that left Ferrari for McLaren... Many have returned to the


    Again this is just my opinion based on some experience and industry "insight" if you will.
     
  10. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #10 boxerman, May 8, 2020
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    I get the whole ferrari is always about the ersatz F1 experience going forwards for the walter mittys etc.
    Course this is the same company also now building and suv and some classic Gt cars, they're diverging from formula laid down by Luca to follow sales.
    Nothing wrong with doing both.
    Even Ducatti which has built its brand on hyperbike tech still builds a monster and a hypomotard, ie classic naked bikes reimagined for the 2ks, in fact thats where most fot heir sales are..

    Yes Maclaren is not ferrari. Many of us would rather have had a new ferrari but as enthusiasts we're not flippers there to support dealer games, we buy to keep, many of us have enough personal dignity not to subject ourselvs to the new ferrari purchase experience game, hence maclaren and others grew into ferraris market.

    Now its a new ferrari, not so artificialy limited production and securing sales and in theory making customers happy should be part of the experience(while maintaining some exclusivity). If ferrari can make some of their curretly lame products, they can certainly make a classic stick option on some cars.
    Their old excuse was no one wanted a stick, clearly there is a stick market in the sportscar segment and clearly its not cost prohibitive to fit a stick to some cars.. There's ample evidence that dealers back when discouraged and refused stick orders in the belief there would be no resale esp for flipping.

    Seems like an easy way for ferrari to get more needed sales, keep customers in the fold and bring driver back. If they can di a suv they can do this. Theyre just lazy and arrogant and did not see how much market share they abandoned through that arrogance and dealer games.

    Even Opec that powerhouse of the 70's and 80's is paying a price for its arrogance now that they created competition, Ferrari would be wise to take note.

    Its not a binary choice or chang of direction, its just expanding the bandwidth of the offering to capture more of a core enthusast market, something more in keeping with the ferrari ethos than a suv. I'm not opposed to the suv either.
     

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