if he don't won the race then the fastest lap dosen't matter at all @ McLaren RW: LH 3 HK 0 FL: hami 0 HK 2 @ BMW RW: RK 1 NH 0 FL RK 0 NH 1 And about the French GP issue no one can say anything because "If kimi's car or If Massa" the fact is Massa win and Kimi and all us Ferrari fans were lucky of not recived a black flag
True, Massa doesn't suck, but I put him in the category of "good driver, great car". That equals success. Rubins was successful in a Ferrari also, but look at him now.
Well, that's the odd thing: He is actually driving as the #2 as shown (and appreciated) in Brazil. But he doesn't acknowledge it in public and still goes on about becoming a champion blablabla. Rubens and Eddie knew their place in history and admitted so publicly. Why cant Massa be more humble/realistic? And don't get me started on his podium behavior.
Why shouldnt he, as the team leadership has said BOTH drivers are to be racing. There is nothing being stated publicly about FM being a #2. It is not being said and quite the opposite is. He has the backing of the team it seems. Do a search on who is #1 at Ferrari and the public statement show that they are equal. Kimi will get it if he is in a position to win and Massa cannot. Seems they worked it that way last year. Felipe seems to know his place in the team and I think its quite brave of him to push for a title. Thats what racers do dont they? I consider him a racer as much as Kimi. Less talented in comparison possibly but not enough to not have driven at Ferrari. He is a Ferrari driver, its amazing how many wish to take that away from him.
Hmmm... I really love all these "this driver sucks" or that driver sucks threads... Come on people... NONE OF THEM "SUCK". These guys are driving in Formula 1 -- and most of us here (if not all) would agree that is pretty much the most prestigious and difficult racing motorsport. I have very little "pity" for them. All of these guys, down to the greenest rookies (if there is really such a thing as a true "rookie" in F1, given their obligatory racing backgrounds) drive a hundred times better than 99.999999% of us. We can only envy what they do -- I don't think any of us could really aspire to it (and before I get flamed for that -- If you could be successful in F1, you would be out there racing, not reading FChat). Anyway, obviously we're all going to have our favorites, arch-villains and underdogs, and not every F1 driver is "great" or is a Schumi, but just once, I'd like to make the point that we are dealing in shades (and very fine shades) of gray here. It's just the difference between who is a very, very good driver, who is a great one, and who is truly brilliant and consistent (not many of those). But "sucks"...? I don't think so guys. Love him or hate him, Massa or anyone else would spank pretty much ANYONE on this forum on a track. Ok, said my piece, now let the arguing resume.
One of the most sensible posts I've read in a long time in this section! So some people want other drivers (their favorites) to drive for Ferrari. That's all right. But because of that please support the ones that are doing the job right now (and not bad at all) instead of bashing Massa.
Oh, well... Rubinho insisted before every season that he had equal treatment, bla, bla, bla... Of course, nobody believed him. And please, don´t forget that Barrichello and Irvine only beated Schumacher once or twice per season; Massa is MUCH closer to Raikkonen than those two were to Schumacher. So I think that your comparison is not fair.
I guess I'm a bit disappointed in people who, in order to "support" their favorite drivers, have to say that other drivers "suck". All drivers have their strengths and weaknesses. If you can watch the racing without the "fanboy" blinders, there's a lot more to see. But we all get set in our ways, and tend to let yesterday's conclusions shade today's observations.
Ferrari traditionally leave that decision to Monza. Before Monza there is no #2 and after Monza its usually auto-sorted itself anyway.
Very ungrateful. I remember Barcelona a year ago where he was taunting the Spanish fans for having beaten Alonso on home turf. Compare that to Kimi who stoically stands there and takes his sip out of the bottle. Much less theatrical, much more dignified. PS: I also was never a fan of MS' trademark patented jump on the podium. It was original and real at first and then became just another routine made for the press to get their picture. You know something is fishy and reeks of marketing once they model behavior like that into a barbie doll. PPS: After a while I also thought Alonso's victory poses became trite and calculated. They were fun and original at first, but soon developed into another PR gag.
Finally a thread about Massa worthy of appreciation. I almost spit up my coffee when I read the heading. Go Massa! Go Kimi! Go Ferrari!!!
welcome to six months ago, hello! we are not talking about 'us'... we are comparing amongst other F1 drivers...
So why bother having a podium ceremony at all? Just mail that trophy and have a few pit babes spray eachother with champagne. I've never seen Massa do some silly moves, most of the time a balded fist in the air which is quite normal behaviour after a victory. Do you have a YouTube link of Barcelona?
Therein lies the rub. But it is a bit pointless to discuss it, as beauty is in the eye of the beer holder: What I see as arrogance, is simply passion to a Massa fan. PS: Hobbs on Speed sometimes cites Senna and Prost on the podium as bad examples for drivers who got bored standing there. I never saw it that way: To me they looked dignified. Be happy you won, take the trophy and spray the champagne, but don't taunt the folks you just beat. It is not sportsmanship.
Massa didn't beat the spanish fans. He beat the other drivers. Celebrating on the podium is inviting the crowd to celebrate with you. Celebrating in parc ferme is more like taunting the other drivers. Or would be, if it weren't that the cameras (and thus, the TV fans) are everywhere, now. Except when Kimi ducks out to have a .... Well, that's one way to keep Fox from skipping the podium ceremony.
Here's a little PF1 quote from the team mate wars section- "Ferrari Season: Raikkonen 5 Massa 4 Race: Raikkonen Not a tough decision, this one. Massa was by far the worst driver at Silverstone. In fact that was the single most abysmal performance by a driver in a GP since Riccardo Rosset hung up his driving gloves. (Undoubtedly the curse of Davies tipping him to be World Champion) Though he's a likeable guy and a great driver in the dry there has to be a serious question mark about his World Champion credentials now. We've had downpours at Interlagos before now - let's hope it doesn't come down to a deciding race in Brazil and the skies open." Oh, I'm sorry, wrong thread.
when did Massa taunt the crowd or Fred when he won at Spain? i don't remember seeing him doing anything silly on TV. don't forget that silly dance Fred used to do when he was at Renault. and MS the famous jump. i guess everyone has their own way of celebrating.
Hey Brian, Andreas and Lindsay basically already answered your question. IMO, his podium behavior is just too much fake PR for me. Then again, Massa doesn't have very much experience in his career being on the top step so I guess I should cut him some slack.
If you were an F1 driver you would celebrate too. These drivers have an ego as big as the universe. They have to have the confidance to think they are the best at everything. I've only been watching formula 1 since 1968 so I guess I may have no room to speak but I think Massa is the best driver on the circut and deserves to celebrate.
actually, i don't mind one bit any sorta celebration a driver should have should he win a race. after all, he deserve it, since he won the race. however, taunting a rival or the crowd is certainly a wrong thing to do. so i guess, nothing is wrong with any of the driver's podium behaviour. sometimes, i think ppl are just finding excuses to hate or bad mouth a particular driver. take Kimi for example. ppl here complain about how 'boring' he is. to me, i don't care if the driver is a motor mouth or a one word person. as long as he's winning, and giving a great performance, and bringing the WDC and WCC to Maranello, i have no complaints. be it Massa or the Kimster.
