The Myth of the Red Mist | FerrariChat

The Myth of the Red Mist

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Texas Forever, Jan 3, 2008.

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  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    My New Year’s Resolution is to take it to the track. Driving high-powered sport cars on the street is just no fun any more. I must be getting old.

    So I hope you hot shoes don’t mind if I start posting more in this forum. I’m one of those people who work things out by writing. And, yes, I’m much very aware that I think too much.

    My idea is to post my experiences and let you pros tell me when I have got it all half-assed backwards. You shouldn’t worry about hurting my feelings. Better people than you have tried and failed. Besides I came of age during the 60s. You know, back when nobody gave a rat’s behind about your self esteem. I still remember my high school football coach grabbing my face mask and pounding my head into the ground. (Chuck u Smitty.)

    First the basics. I’m 55 and way out of shape. The first reality, thus, is to lose weight and build up muscle strength. The second reality is that Hamilton will never have to worry about me challenging him for the championship. In fact, winning races is not my goal. I just want to be the very best driver that I can be. (Cue up that dumb song about girls just wanting to have fun.)

    Here is what I have done so far. Besides the usual track rat stuff, I just took the Skippy MX-5 racing school at Laguna Seca. (What a hoot. More on this later.) I also have started renting a Spec Racer Ford at MSR Houston just for seat time. Simply put, I have too many bills to pay to race open-wheel cars. Thus, it gotta be a closed wheel if you wanna dance with me. Also, while I have never driven a shifter kart, seeing the go-fast kart guys with tire tracks on their shoulders has convinced me that that a roll cage and racing harness is the way to go.

    What lessons have I learned so far? The good news is that I haven’t had any problem with nausea. Apparently some do and some don’t. So far I don’t.

    The main lesson is that, at least for me, it is all mental. While lead/follow is cool to gain confidence in what a car can do, driving over my head chasing a better driver is counter productive. For me, smoothness and consistency is much more important than letting the red mist egg me on to getting out of control.

    In other words, I’m racing against myself. When I pass a car (and, yes, it does give me a tingle to pass somebody), I see it only as an obstacle that is in the way of doing my thing. Plus, okay, I'll admit it. I’m only human. When somebody passes me, the red mist colors my vision and I mutter, “Why you SOB.” However, I try to catch myself and laugh. I figure that as long as I’m laughing, I’m still learning.

    What do you guys think? I realize that to win, you must be super competitive. Plus, the higher the stakes, the more competitive you must be. However, is the Red Mist a learning tool or is it something that must be controlled. Damn I’m sounding like Yoda here. :)

    Dale
     
  2. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,799
    Sarasota, Fl.
    Full Name:
    Stan
    That's what I tell people when the talk turns this way. People with experience aren't offended because they know. The inexperienced only think that they are fast and the lesson is learned their first time out. So they have learned how fast they aren't. Lesson learned.

    It is funner to pass than be passed. That's fact.

    What is interesting is when you see a lesser car overtaking you. Later, you overtaking superior cars. That's part of learning. Learning how important a skilled driver is.


    Oh yeah. And red mist can happen. Another thing to learn about.
     
  3. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    Dale, think about what happens to your driving when you get all 'red-misted'. You lose focus, you make rough inputs and worse decisions. Is that the way to go fast?

    "Work on your driving you must before faster you get." - b-mak

    "Driving begins and ends between your ears." - b-mak's real-world persona
     
  4. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,185
    Stay analytical. Stay humble and honest with yourself. Use data. Beware of experts. Go to school on drivers who are a little faster than you. Drive a lot of tracks. Think hard before you blame the car, the crew, the track, the weather, the stewards, the other drivers. Never protest anyone; IMO protests are for people who can't win on the track. Think hard before you conclude the the guy who beat you is cheating; never, ever underestimate the power of talent. Watch out for big fish/small pond syndrome; I value my top ten finishes in SRF far more that my few meaningless wins in three car CSR fields. Respect the sport; it is very, very hard to do this well. Race against the best people, in the most competitive fields, you can. Try to be realistic; don't beat yourself up. Writing this from the Sebring winter national. Will - FE #14/SRF #56..
     
  5. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2001
    11,013
    panama city beach FL
    Full Name:
    rick c
    have you checked into forumla v or formula first, which is just updated formula v cars. it's very affordable even when compared with karts. very strong classes. lots of competition for us old guys too. there's nothing like open wheel racing.
     
  6. AnotherDunneDeal

    AnotherDunneDeal F1 Veteran

    Jun 2, 2003
    6,109
    N.Richland Hills, Tx
    Full Name:
    James Dunne
    Smooth is quick. Go to school on the guy who just passed you. He is either more experienced, has a better line, has a faster car or is about to crash it out. Drive your own race and be patient. If you are a better driver the guy in front of you will eventually make a bobble and like you said, he will just be an obstacle in your way.

    You have been through enough track days and drivers schools to know the basics of being on a track in traffic so keep your head and draw on every experience you have. Do not let others psyche you out. Lots of drivers will work mind games on you and attempt to draw you in. Do not succumb to their games.

    When I raced moto-cross and taught M/X schools we always advised walking the track to familiarize ourselves with all the undulations, surface changes, surface conditions and peculiarities of each track. You will not be able to walk every track when racing cars but you can drive every track enough in practice to get very familiar with its layout and condition. You can also pick the spots where there may be two lines through a corner and one may just be a little better than the other. It will come in handy to know those spots when dicing it out with someone who is about the same skill or a little better than you and you need to take an advantage.


    I wish you well in your new venture and wish I were doing it along with you.................
     
  7. jknight

    jknight F1 Veteran

    Oct 30, 2004
    7,821
    Central Texas
    Good morning Dale . .

    I really like your initial post - it most certainly hits home in all aspects, however, in my case horse power is substantially reduced . . . like to one hp. Your comment: "I realize that to win, you must be super competitive. Plus, the higher the stakes, the more competitive you must be." is absolutely true. Competitive driving with my mini horses parallels everything you mentioned in your post. Professional training, purchasing the best equipment on the market, having the best horse(s), having the best trailer/truck towing package and lots of "seat time" is the same as having the best track car you can afford. (big difference dealing with an engine with a thought process versus a mechanical block in front of you) In the end, the ability to say to yourself, YES I did accomplish my goal and then some, and friendships made along the way coupled with love/support from those closest to us makes it all worthwhile. The trophies, the photos are all visual rewards but the best reward is that which always remains in your mind. . . for me plenty, but most significant is double Grand Championships with Tuffy and Tony in their respective driving classes that evening at the Denver Stock Show (only to find out later that Emma passed away at A&M that day) . . . then the weekend jaunt to a show near Chicago in my points quest for both horses; CO shows 3 x's in one season . . .all part of the equation of the element of competition.

    Be safe, have fun and enjoy.

    Carol
     
  8. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,465
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    Dale, you're a sensible guy who does his homework well before embarking on big projects, and this is a big project! <grin>

    Follow your gut. Try your hardest NOT to get sucked into what the other guy is doing. Drive your own plan. Don't get pissed (mad)!

    The red mist is NOT a learning tool, it's just a way to drain the fun out of this thing, trash a car and perhaps get hurt. BTDT.

    As much teaching, coaching and racing that I've done, I still get it BAD every now and then. Afterwards, I feel terrible, and feel lucky things didn't get too out of hand.

    I'll never forget a well-known Porsche driver admonishing me after I drove into the back of him in the very crowded opening laps of a longer race...

    "You, of ALL people. After everything you've taught and written about staying calm in the car! @*&$% you! I guess you're HUMAN, after all..."

    Not a good moment...
     
  9. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    45,030
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    My .02
    Data aquisition is the single most important driver aid after a good initial school.
    There are even schools that teach one how to use it properly.
    Read Don Knowels take on it in this months Road and Track.
    An important addition is that one needs a standard in which to compare yourself; the fast guys data. As a new driver I'm sure some would share.
    Does Ben McKracken (SP ?) still race SRF ? He is in Texas region.
    SRF or Spec Miata are the places to be, good choice. FM is at the top of the tightwad foodchain and I got eaten up there. :(
     
  10. Ronbo

    Ronbo Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2005
    413
    Morris County, NJ
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Dale --

    2008 will be my second full season of tracking and my first full season of racing. I'm about your age and not athletic. I see a lot of guys on the track who are older and in worse shape than me.

    I'm not sure what you are planning to drive, but I started out in DE with my 456. Much too much car for a track novice, but I was hooked. I wasn't prepared to write off my Ferrari on the track so I decided to get a dedicated track car. I bought a 1986 Porsche 944, but there are plenty of other safe, cheap momentum-type (i.e., underpowered) cars to choose from, including the MX-5.

    I made two moves that improved my driving immeasurably over the past season. The car was one, and seat time was the other. I did more than 20 track days this season, and in the Northeast that's a lot. There are aspects of driving that are physical and reward repetition. Heel-and-toe downshifting is one example. Also, the car provides a lot of sensory inputs and it takes time to be able to recognize, understand and respond to them. Finally, this is a set of skills that can be taught and coached, so frequent instruction and feedback are valuable. I had one stretch in which I drove the same track four weekends out of five with a mix of instructed and solo sessions. It was an outstanding opportunity to learn, analyze and practice.

    Until I gained some experience, I didn't realize how lucky I was to have a momentum car. A momentum car can't use the throttle to overcome (or mask) mistakes. If I blow a corner I've probably blown the lap. At a minimum, it takes a lot of work to get back even a little lost time. It's a great way to learn. Second, you can't help but be humble in a 944 and humility is absolutely essential to learning. Perhaps the best thing about driving a momentum car is that once the skills start to come you know that it's you, not the car, that's reeling in the competition.

    Safety is another reason I bought a track car. I have a full cage, racing seats and 6-point harnesses, so I don't think my car is still street-legal. Also, I wear a HANS device on track, which is incompatible with stock seats and belts.

    Lightguy mentioned data. I can't wait to get a data acquisition system, but I don't think I missed much by not having data this year. I shot a lot of video and found that most of my mistakes were obvious (even to me) on tape. Now that I have more experience I'm looking to make smaller corrections and a data system will be much more useful.

    Best of luck and please keep us posted.

    Ron
     
  11. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,018
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    I wish you well with your new hobby.... and you should look at it like that ... a hobby!

    I used to race Formula Renault when I was in my early 20's... and I learned the hard way that I was never going to be the next Alain Prost... but that has let me enjoy good driving for what it is.

    Being Smooth is paramount. Speed will come with seat time, but smoothness dertermines how happy your seat time is!

    I have been a passanger with lots of self confessed "fast drivers" ... and most times they just have a really fast car.

    A good driver is one who can take any old car and make it go fast with out seeming to! Too many times I have been on track with a guy in his F40 who slams on the brakes, and then the throttle... when they down shift you can feel a jolt as it goes in gear.... That is not the right way... I would suggest to focus on smoothness, proper line, good technique.

    Let all the fast guys go, and forget them. When I (rarely) get on track, I tell my self to get out of everybodys way so I can concentrate on my own... and when you finally get in the zone, you will all of a sudden see you are closing in on someone, and then its time to pass them... thats the place to be.

    the "red mist" is easy to acquire and hard to loose. The other thing I think a lot of guys dont have is good track manners!

    if you are slower, let the fast guy go, if you are fast, dont push too hard, you never know the skill level of the guy you are trying to pass... its not worth getting killed or screwing up your car.

    Unfortunately there are TONS of Ferrari guys with more money than brains, and those of you who go to FCA events know what I'm talking about!

    Best of luck!
     
  12. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,334
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    1) Visualization. I used to race FF1600 and Karts and visualization helped me immensely. During a race weekend (or anytime at home) after you've run a set of laps during practice sit down in a quiet spot where you won't be bothered by anyone and have your stopwatch in hand. Close your eyes and run the laps in your head as you remember them. Do the movements. Pretend you're holding the wheel and turn it for each turn. Make the shifts and yes hum the engine noise. When you complete the lap you're recreating in your head take a look at the stopwatch, then compare it to the actual lap time during the practice. How close were you? Where in your head were you off? Where do you think you could make up time? Don't just visualize the practice laps you've done, also visualize a fast lap and run it over in your head. Visualize winning that race coming up. Get it locked into your grey matter. Your brain is more advanced than any data acquisition you could buy. Learn to use it properly and then when you do have a system you'll really be able to exploit it.

    2) Humility is great but only in victory. What I mean is, save the humility for when you win. Racers need a healthy ego. There I said it. Even if you're out there for fun part of the fun is beating the rest of the field. Don't confuse humility for emotional control. They are two separate things and should be treated as such. You need your ego to help drive you forward, push you to get better. Don't push it down. Just realize sh*t happens in racing, and very rarely is anything personal. You pass people and they pass you that's the way it is. You know yourself better than anyone else and you know your limits. Do your best to push those limits a little further back each time you're out on the track and have fun.
     
  13. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,426
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    Dale,

    The advice given above is well stated, however, I think the most important thing has been overlooked. Like yourself, I am over the 50 year mark and must face some reality. At this point, you're primary investment should be in yourself.

    1.Get in shape. Driving is very physical. And when you get tired, you make mistakes. When was the last time you had a complete physical / stress test? I've seen more that one driver be takened to the hospital because of heart related issues. Some do not get a chance to drive again. Ask yourself, when was the last time you went at it in bed for 20 minutes without stopping? And how did you feel after you were done? (We're not in our 20's any longer, no matter what we think).

    2. Attend as many driver schools as you can. By this I mean getting on the track with a qualified instructor.

    3. Get Liability insurance that specifically covers track events. You will feel really foolish if you get caught up in some lawsuit and finding all you assets on the line. It happens.

    4. Most of all, have fun - this is not a career change.
     
  14. Daryl

    Daryl Formula 3

    Nov 10, 2003
    1,035
    Barrington Hills, IL
    Full Name:
    Daryl Adams
    Great choice to go SRF racing, Dale. I've done 5 seasons now and I'm convinced it's the best deal for guys our age. I don't know where you live, but I hope you'll come to a double regional at Road America this coming season. (avoid the Sprints....too much "Red Mist" carnage!) Ping me sometime, I'd like to compare notes.
     
  15. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    All – Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate them, particularly from all you big-ego, big-shot drivers out there. :)

    Again, I’m just doing this for fun. I have done enough of this stuff to know that I’m a good driver, but I’ll never be a great one. I once had the opportunity to kinda chase Anthony Lazzaro around TWS at a low-key track day. I learned that there is skill and then there is real talent.

    Anthony was driving, I think, a Q-Port and I had a Maser Spyder. He was doing things with that car that was unbelievable. After a short while, I was laughing so hard that I almost had to pull over as he disappeared into the distance.

    Then again, it is a fine line between love and hate. To learn, I understand that you need to push yourself. But I’m thinking that you need to do this rationally. One thing I enjoyed about the Skippy school was the emphasis on perfection versus speed. They kept saying over and over again that we needed to get it right, before trying to go fast.

    One more story before I go to bed. At Laguna, we had a mix of young and older drivers. The funny thing was that some of the older students had a bigger problem with the red mist than the young bucks. I don’t know how many of you have ever taken Turn 2 at Laguna, but it is a very technical double-apex turn that requires a lot of trail BRAKING oversteer to master. Well, I was standing next to one of the instructors while we were watching the other group attempt to wig and wag their way through T2. There was one older student who would always get on the gas too early, which resulted in pushing the front right into the gravel. In a moment of frustration the instructor said, “$@%& the definition of a moron is the inability to learn.”

    More later as time permits.

    Thx, Dale
     
  16. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    Are you going to be at the race in Houston on the 19th?

    Dale
     
  17. Ed_Long

    Ed_Long Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2003
    686
    Salem, Oregon USA
    Full Name:
    Ed Long
    I raced small sedans and production sports cars in SCCA, IMSA, and ICSSC and I second all of the advice you have received thus far. I very much enjoyed learning from other drivers as I tried to stay with them or even pass them. Setting up the guy in front of you for a pass at the location on the track where you are a bit faster is very satisfying.

    I eventually learned the visualization thing too and it helped a lot. I would find a quiet place in the truck or wherever and visualize in my pea brain a complete lap, what gear to be in, how the engine should sound, where the breaking point was, turn in point, apex, recovery point. I do not recall who taught me that, but it was great.

    I started bolting a video camera into the car, mounted on the main hoop of the roll cage so I generally could see my right hand in the picture and I learned a lot from watching my own mistakes and why the guy in front of me eased away from me.

    The guy who mentored me through drivers schools in 1968 lives down the road from me and we are still good friends, known him for 40 years now. I enjoyed meeting people and making new friends. Friends for life. Enjoy!

    Ed
     
  18. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,185
    "Are you going to be at the race in Houston on the 19th?"

    No, in fact, I'm sorry to say I've never raced in Texas! My schedule for this year will include the nationals at these tracks, plus a few more here and there, hope to meet up with you:

    Sebring
    Kershaw
    Roebling
    Atlanta
    VIR
    Summit
    Mid Ohio
    Road America - June Sprints
    Watkins Glen
    Nelson Ledges
    IRP
    Grattan
    Mosport (?)

    A prep shop called Jay Motorsports takes care of my formula car, and I rent the SRF from them, so I just follow them around the country ...
     
  19. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    Getting back to this red mist stuff --

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB_k_wlr5Bc

    What do you think of Zanardi's pass? Was he sucked into braking too late and had no way out? Or did he plan this move?

    Dale
     
  20. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    That was a calculated, yet all-or-nothing/low probability, move. Today, a driver would be penalized for a pass like that, but the officials let that one stand.

    I also can't imagine Zanardi suffering from the red mist affliction, particularly at that stage of his career.
     
  21. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,465
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    I think Alex was really lucky!

    Obviously he had a hell of a run, but if Bryan had come down on him, Alex would have been though of as an idiot. Alex was NOT "misty" to do this, he just made a calculated gamble on the last lap of the race... Might have worked, might not. Money and title on the line, too.

    I don't know, Brian, I think Alex made a career out of these kind of moves, but your're right, he was probably planning them by this stage! <grin>
     
  22. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    That's the truth! He wielded his brand of racing upon the lot of unsuspecting Champ Car drivers and created his legend with all of those great performances.
     

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